Question re: Email Protocol

In My Humble Opinion
1

This is my first new thread, I hope I have it in the right place. This is kind of long, please bear with me, I need some objective opinions on this.

Last week, a friend of mine sent me (and a large group of other people in her address book) an email about George Bush’s religious beliefs. I did not respond.

The next day, two people had responded to the email, and had “replied to all” so the entire group of people got them. I sent an email to the group saying, “If you are going to continue this discussion, could you please make it private, or remove my email address from the list? Thanks, [my name].”

My friend got mad! She wrote back that her email was the whole idea of freedom of speech, and said she would make sure not to send me “emails of that nature” in the future.

I responded:
"Actually, yes, I’d prefer a personal email telling me how you’re doing every once in a while, over a forwarded email to a large group of people.

“This is my work email. I’m sorry you feel that my asking your friends to take me off the email list makes me seem rude. One forwarded email from you doesn’t bother me, but if you wanted to start a discussion about it, you should have asked everybody first if they wanted to participate. That’s standard protocol.”

She got even angrier. I won’t paste what she said here, because that’s a whole other email protocol issue. She basically denied having started the discussion, said “freedom of speech” again, and said “some people are just too sensitive.” You can probably guess the rest, from my reply, that I have NOT sent yet:

"[Name,] you are the one who is being too sensitive. I already said that I don’t care if you send me email, I just didn’t want to get involved in this particular discussion and nicely asked the GROUP of people discussing it (NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY) to remove my name. (Yes, you DID start the discussion, when you copied the email to your group of friends.) As usual, you blow my emails out of proportion. At least you didn’t bitch me out in public this time.

"I know that you prefer phone calls to keep in touch, but I haven’t gotten one of those from you in a while either. I can see why you prefer it, though; I can never seem to get anything through to you in an email and had to call you last time to “explain myself” (and you admitted that you had blown it out of proportion, remember?). Well, I’m not going to call you and try to smooth this one over, when yet again, you are the one who has been too sensitive and blown it out of proportion. If you still think I am wrong, feel free to call me. But I don’t know how I can make it any clearer than I already have.

“Please tell me what is wrong with asking to have my name removed from a discussion list. Or is it your opinion that I should be forced to read email from people I don’t know? Freedom of speech is fine, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS. A lot of people forget that part.”

Some background:
-This isn’t the first time she’s blown an email of mine out of proportion.
-I’m not the only one on that list of people she sent the email to who didn’t like receiving it, and who now agrees with me (and who agreed the last time, too).

Questions:
-Who is right?
-Did I come across as being rude in the first two emails?
-If I’m right, what do I do now? Send the third email, as is (bitchy)? Or edit it to be nicer? I’m afraid if I do that, she won’t “get it” and will still be angry. Or she will think she’s won, which I don’t want.

I don’t want to “get over it” or let it slide, either. I did that the last time she overreacted to something I said, and I won’t do it again. And I won’t call her; I’d like to use my best medium for debate (written), rather than hers (verbal).

Please help!

2

I’d have to say you are right in this case, Jean. I had done what your friend did once, forwarded to a bunch of people and one of my friends started getting emails from people he didn’t know. What my friend did was send me an email requesting that next time I do that, to put his name BCC. So I did. No fights, no misunderstandings. I don’t see what your friend’s problem is to be honest.

I don’t see you as being ruse in the first two emails, but the first one when you ask to be taken off the list, I can see how that can be mistakenly read to mean you were telling your friend to take your name off her(?) list. That might have started some of the touchiness.

I would send the 3rd email in it’s bitchy form. I don’t understand your friend’s whol “Freedom of Speech” argument here. Yes, she has freedom of speech as long as it doesn’t infringe on others people’s rights. Just as you have the freedom to not listen to her. I don’t see how you asking not to be emailed with this stuff infringes on her freedom of speech. She can still express her views, but that doesn’t mean you have to listen or agree with them.

BTW, you may want to fix your home page link, it doesn’t work as is. :wink:

3

She’s wrong- period. You are right and did not express you wishes in a rude way. She needs a lesson in e-mail protocol, not you. (and in manners)

There is no need to continue your fight any more- you won. Personally, I would block her e-mail address. You probobly have more patience then I do, so try the following:

Jot her an e-mail and simply say
“We seem to disagree on e-mail protocol, and I’d like to be left off your “forward” list. I cannot read these e-mails at work and be productive, and I’m not interested in them. I hope you respect that decision and take it in the spirit in which it it intended. I enjoy hearing from you very much, but I’d rather have a phone call then forwarded e-mails. Thank you for respecting my decision to be free of forwarded e-mails.”

She sounds either very immature or like a real bitch. If that’s the case, block her e-mail address and let her know it’s because she abused her e-mail “rights” with you. You don’t have to accept e-mails any more then you have to accept phone calls or letters. Refuse to put up with it, don’t argue. You don’t have to defend your “right” not to have anything shoved in your face.

Zette

4

I appreciate the fast responses. I knew it had to be her, not me.

Crunchy Frog, you have a point; I can see now how my first email might have set her off. She doesn’t seem to “get” the whole Reply to All vs. Reply to Author thing, and probably still thinks I was addressing her personally. And it’s the site that’s screwed up, not my link, so I just deleted it - thanks for letting me know. :slight_smile:

Zette, wow, you’ve given me a great option to reply with. Thank you! If I use it, I will probably not change a thing. When I said “protocol” I think that was what ticked her off even more. In her response to it, she used it back at me about 5 times. I suppose she thinks that since she’s my friend she’s allowed to send spam. I probably should have said “common courtesy” instead.

Since there is one for and one against sending the bitchy email, I’ll wait a little longer and tally the votes.

5

Your friend is being a douche, frankly.

The proper etiquette is that if one must do bulk e-mail forwards, they should BCC everyone. This way, e-mail addresses are not shown to everyone. It prevents this “Reply To all” nonsense dead in its tracks.

And you not wanting to get replied to 100 times is perfectly your right.

Tell her that she is wrong, she violated netiquette not once but twice, and that you would killfile her if she persisted.

Yer pal,
Satan

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6

Actuaully, I got to the site just fine once I deleted everything in front of the “www” in my browser. For some reason it had “boards.straightdope. . . yada yada” in front of the “www”. It was a link to an X-Men site? A cetain female X-Man to be exact, right? So do you really look like Famke Janssen or are you just teasing?

7

Satan, thanks - the BCC thing is what I should have told her first. She been online few years, she should know that by now. It didn’t occur to me to mention that first because I have no friends who do this. They all just bulk email everyone in their email list.

Crunchy Frog, when I went to delete the link, it didn’t have all that stuff in front of it. Perhaps a glitch in the message board system? Anyway, no I don’t look like Famke Janssen. :slight_smile: It’s a fannish Jean Grey page that is hosted by a site that regularly crashes (which is what I thought your problem was).

8

I’ve found this happens if you forget the http://. It’ll post as a link, but have the SD address in front of it.

9

I’d have to side with you on this one. You just don’t send out bulk email unless you’re fairly sure that the receivers wouldn’t mind receiving it; it’s just common courtesy and consideration. And if you happen to send out unwanted email and the receiver responds with “Please don’t send this type of stuff in the future,” you should respect that. I don’t see how freedom of speech figures into all this; you have the right to say whatever you want (within the bounds of law) but you don’t have the right to make people listen to you.

As for rude, well, I don’t think you were being rude at all. But then, when I recently ran into this problem, my curt response was “Look, if you have an email message directly for me, then by all means send it to me, but otherwise, take me off the To: list.” So I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

About the Bcc thing, Satan is absolutely correct; bulk emails should be Bcc’d, not sent via multiple entries in the To: or Cc: fields. This doesn’t have anything to do with stopping floods of emails or etiquette; people should have enough sense to know when use of the “Reply to all” button is appropriate. Rather, it’s to prevent people you don’t know from getting ahold of your email. Sending out bulk email without Bcc is the equivalent of giving out phone numbers to everyone you know. Now, if everyone on the list knows one another, this is not really and issue. Nevertheless, it’s still good practice to Bcc bulk email.

10

The best thing is to forget it, don’t mention it, and if it comes up again, shrug.

If you get more emails, just delete them or block the senders you don’t know.

Don’t let unwritten or unremembered or unobserved rules get in the way of friendship. Friendship comes with a little overhead, and so does email. Don’t make it an issue, or you will be the only one to lose anything of value.

11

You’re right; she’s wrong.

12

This is a sore point with me lately. I know someone (let’s call her person #1) that I haven’t talked to in over a year, and out of the blue I get a forwarded e-mail sent from her to everyone on her e-mail list. Then someone on the list (person #2) sent a personal e-mail to her only, nicely asking her to leave her off the list, as she prefers personal messages over forwarded e-mails. Then person #1 decides that she’s been wronged, and therefore sends a copy of the e-mail along with a note calling person #2 all kinds of nasty names. Then several other people jump in and say that they don’t want the bulk mail either. Then person #1 writes back (to EVERYONE) to say that she’s hurt. Etc, etc. Meanwhile, my inbox is filling up with this garbage. I don’t know 95% of the people on her mailing list, and everyone is replying to all.

I’m with the rest of the SDMB crowd on this one. You’re right, she’s wrong. In hindsight, maybe there were better ways of wording the whole thing, but realistically, you should have the right to ask to be taken off of the mailing list without being called names. It is good netiquette to BCC e-mail addy’s, and replying to all shouldn’t be done regularly unless is it truly a voluntary group discussion.

13

I’m glad I got a few more responses. I knew I was right, I just had to know if I was being rude at all or if she was overreacting. The more I tried to explain it to her, the madder she got. I don’t think I will send my bitchy email, but I don’t know what to send instead (I still don’t want to just blow it off).

Caldazar, for example, if I’d have said to her what you recently did to your friend, she would have hit “Reply to All” and told me how rude I was being. Yes, she’s done that before. I walk a fine line with her.

Jasper, I’d be inclined to agree with you, except that this isn’t the first time she’s reacted this way. I agree about the friendship, but when the friendship has devolved into no contact other than forwarded emails, what then?

Thanks, porcupine. :slight_smile:

lolagranola, that could easily be what’s happening right now, behind my back. Take me off the list, and commence a flame war. But I’m not going to get all broken up about it. In fact, I’m surprised at how normal I feel.

I think what I will do is send a one-liner saying thanks for respecting my wishes, drop it, and then if it comes up again in some petty way, fight to the death.

14

Jean Grey: Are you the government? If not, your friend’s “freedom of speech” argument is ridiculous.

15

May I respecfully suggest that this person is consuming way too much energy on your part? She sounds like a pain in the ass. If she’s not a life-long pal, block her e-mail and move on with life. She sounds like a negative person who gives you fits over nothing. I have to say quite honestly that I would mail-bomb anyone who did a “reply to all” and commenced a flame war with me. (I haven’t, but I think I would) With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Just my opinion, of course.
PS- the best “netiquette” of all in my book is to never bulk forward any e-mail. I rarely if ever forward mail. If a joke or something is really funny I may send it to my husband (In a new mail), but I think the practice of bulk mailing is just rude. I have a “friend” who sends bulk “life updates”, then does a few “shout outs” at the bottom. Totally bizarre.

Zette

Hey, why don’t you just send her a link to this thread?

16

Another issue is that this is your WORK email. I don’t know where you work or what their email policy is, but in my company, it is against company policy to send/receive personal email, especially bulk or chain mail. Of course, its also against company policy to access the internet for personal use (please don’t tell on me!).

17

I’m with you on this one, Jean Grey. I have made it very plain to my friends that they are not to send me inspirational crap through the email system, and to limit the jokes to those that are actually funny.

For the longest time, people would automatically forward all of this rubbish (virus warnings, lame jokes, stories of angels, ridiculous pictures, scrolldowntoseetheimage stuff), until I put my foot down. Fortunately, I’m quite an asshole IRL, so when I asked them (as politely as I’m capable) to stop, they stopped so as not to irk me any further. None of my friends are so sensitive as to have taken it personally.

To me, email is a real double-edged sword: it makes my life so much easier, while at the same time being a complete pain in my ass.

18

Jean, send her a link to this thread!

19

Actually, forward a link to this thread to everyone on your list!!

:: fleeing ::

Yer pal,
Satan

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20

I have a similar problem all the time with strangers. I’m in a position where I answer questions emailed to me by the General Public, and sometimes people stick me in their address books, and then start sending me spam (stupid shit–chain letters, “uplifting” stories about retarded kids and angels–that kind of worthless bandwidth-sucking tripe) because they send-to-all in their address book. Inevitably, when I send a terse but polite email saying, “I don’t mind receiving questions from you, but please do not forward things to me,” they get all huffy about it and send badly-spelled messages asking me how I am hurting them and railing about free speech. These are clueless folks to begin with–not net-savvy, usually–so I usually spend a many emails trying to enlighten them, staying polite, but giving no quarter. I’ve never actually had to put anyone in a kill file yet, but I wish there was some magic phrase that would make them get it!