Questions about airline first class

Factual Questions
1

I’ve wanted to try flying first class for a long time now, but the price is so high that I can’t justify it. On the other hand, business class is also too expensive; I’ve been bumped up, too, and it just wasn’t that big a deal. Certainly not worth the price differential. At any rate, here is a mix of factual and opinion questions.

  1. In the past, both Amex and Diners Club had top-level cards that provided companion tickets for first class. Now, looking at websites for the two cards, it seems that Diner Club doesn’t have a program any more, and Amex is phasing out it’s program in August of this year. Do you have any information on these changes?

  2. About what percentage of first-class fliers are bumpees from business class or economy? About what percentage are paying for first class to begin with?

  3. Looking at Orbitz and checking with travel agents, first class is typically $10 -18k round trip! Are these prices realistic? Even if I were a millionaire, it would seem a hard expense to justify. Or is it that people “in the know” are actually paying lower fares somehow?

  4. When did business class come into existence? I know it used to be just first and economy. How were the prices for first back then relative to economy?

  5. Finally (and this is the only opinion question), do you think the service in first class justifies the expense? We are considering flying one-way first in July to the US on JAL. Would it be worth it to pay 14k for that? Can we get a cheaper fare somehow? Just fantasizing, really.

Thanks for your help with these.

2

I’ve flown first class on a couple of short-ish flights (St. Louis to Orlando and Atlanta to St. Louis). The seats are wider and you get limitless free drinks. Big whoop.

However, if I were flying across an ocean, and had the money to spare, I’d probably spring for first class. Only because 10 hours in a coach seat is a lot harder than 3 hours in a coach seat.

Let me also state that I’ve flown across the pacific twice (San Francisco to Osaka, and Tokyo to Portland). Sitting in a coach seat for 10 hours REALLY REALLY sucks ass. BUT, and this is a very big BUT, unless I had money shooting out of my anus I could never bring myself to pay $14,000 for a flight. Especially when I can get the same flight in coach for $800.

However, if you’ve got $14K to spare, by all means go for it.

3

I’ve travelled practically my entire working life. For my present job, I negotiated first class travel as part of the deal. Since my trips to the east coast typically take nine hours, it’s well worth it to me to be as comfortable as possible. The cost for this is under $2K round trip. Fewer screaming kids, attentive service, free meals and drinks (if that’s your thing), baggage priority, entry and exit priority, shorter lines at the airport. Yeah, it’s worth it to me (but then, I’m not paying for it).

Can’t answer the rest of your questions.

4

Some people in First and Business are using airmiles to bump themselves up, and there’s often people that get bumped for random reasons.

We need to note the distinction between First and Coach in the US, and First/Business/Coach transoceanic. There is a world of difference here, with the true luxury, ranked from best to worst, being “First Trans/Business/First Domestic/Coach Trans/Coach Domestic” Business Class transoceanic is much better than First domestic, in that the seats are huge, there is a wide range of in-flight entertainment, full meals, little travel kits, lounge access…

I almost always fly Business transoceanic for a couple of very important reasons. First, a Business Class ticket lets me change my itinerary on the fly with no penalties and no hassle. Say the client wants me to stay an extra day to hash out a contract issue - no problem, just call the airline and they move my flight. Say I want to stay late to tour Italy, just call. Say I want to have an extended stopover in another country, no problem, no extra charge. This may not be true on all airlines, but it is on the ones I fly. Or take this example - on a business trip to England, my return ticket was direct back to Chicago. I wanted to see how much it would cost on the return to fly back to the US via Athens, stay in Athens 5 days with my girlfriend, and then return to the US. The cost? No charge whatsoever. So I got a Business Class free vacation to Greece tacked onto my trip. :cool:

Another big deal is the lounge. When you’re trapped in a 5-hour layover in an strange country (just enough time to be boring, not enough time to let you get out and explore) you can retire to the safety of the lounge and eat, drink, sleep, get online (I’ve spent time reading the SDMB from lounges in Spain, England, and Poland) and have personal service. The arrivals lounges in Heathrow have showers even.

I will say, however, that the tightening in the industry has reduced the amenities in First domestic. American used to give me a hot meal in First, and they cut that out as well. I used to get unlimited free drinks, and there has been a serious drawback on that. I have been told that some airlines are going “2 drinks”, but am uncertain. And I don’t even appreciate the difference in the seats so much since I’m small. So the differential cost really has become not worth it IMO on domestic legs.

5

You can see the first class section as you leave the plane. It is VERY small; I don’t think there are even 20 seats there. Business class, on the other hand, is almost half the plane nowadays (something I noticed for the first time recently on JAL). Of course, there are probably still more seats in economy, since the seats are smaller.

According to my perception, the advantages of first class (on international flights) are as follows:

A. A seat that turns into a bed. In that sense, it is equivalent to a berth (as on an older airplane). Business class is not quite so good.

B. You board first without hassle.

C. Food and booze are better. Presumably, Dom Peri is available. I had business class food on ANA, and I wasn’t really impressed. They were trying hard, but it wasn’t quite working. Contrariwise, I am usually satisfied with economy food and liquor (unlike most people, perhaps).

D. Better audio-video system, but necessarily better than in business class.

E. An opportunity to connect with others in first class, who are presumably rich and powerful.

Funny thing, but when I did a search once on Orbitz, I was unable to find anything for a first class NY-LA flight. I wonder what’s up with that…

6

Thanks for your answers. These points about business travel are very good. The flexibility is important, and the cost (@$3k or so, right?) for business trans is really not too out of line.

7

Well, I can comment on the “experience” of flying First vs Coach, but not the cost. I fly for free on my airline, and a First-Class upgrade is a nominal service charge. :cool:

As other people have stated, Domestic First Class is an upgrade but may not be of much value to certain people. I’m fairly tall (6’ 2"), so the extra leg and elbow room makes a flight much more comfortable for me. My GF is 5’6" and petite, so an upgrade for her is more of a “meh”. A hot meal (depending on the length of the flight - even First Class doesn’t get a meal between Austin and Dallas!), a hot towel and free booze is also of different value to various people. Most people in Domestic First Class are either people like Chefguy who are travelling on business and have the company pick up the tab, or people using their miles to upgrade.

International, and especially Trans-Oceanic, First Class is a completely different story. A couple of years ago the GF and I went to Paris. We were lucky enough to get First Class from Dallas-Paris and also for the return trip. These flights are short (8.5 hours going east, 10 going west) compared to Pacific flights but having the First Class amenities made the flight incredibly enjoyable.

The seats lay flat, of course, but they are encased in a pod-like structure. This pod has cubby holes for all of your stuff, your own TV and VCR, and a privacy screen that goes between you and the aisle when your seat is flat. The most enjoyable thing was the table and extra chair that faces your seat. The table comes out of the “wall”, and the extra chair comes out of one of the cubby holes. By using this we were able to eat dinner and breakfast seated across from one another, and have a face-to-face conversation. If you want to make time pass quickly on an airplane, eat a lobster salad and sip wine while sitting across from your friend/SO/peon employee. (The meal was several courses - the salad was the second course). Then settle in for your private movie. Not just what’s available on the airplane’s entertainment system, but your own personal movie to pause, fast-forward, etc. On the way back our “pods” were next to each other so we asked for and got a splitter that allowed both of us to listen to the same movie through our (free) noise-canceling headsets.

Suffice it to say that we arrived at our destination refreshed and as ready to go as is possible. I’ve told my friends (other pilots) that the ride in First Class overseas was as close to having your own Personal Transportation Pod as is possible today (barring your own personal Gulfstream V, of course!).

So is it all worth it? I don’t know. For routine travel, no way. But to reward yourself for something by doing something extravagant?- well, that depends on how much you are willing to spend. I’ve described what it can be like - is that experience worth it to you? (There are obviously enough people that it IS worthwhile for, otherwise we’d rip out the seats and make it all business or coach class).

I hope this helps, and if you do end up flying First or Business let us know about your experience!

8

Thanks, Pilot, for that great information. I’ll def. let you all know what it was like if I fly first.

I was wondering if anyone else had any info on the credit card programs that seem to have disappeared or are disappearing.

9

You asked how long “business class” has been around. In 1978, I flew first class (not my choice, the company booked/paid for the tickets) from NY to London on BA, and I did the same flight in 1980 in coach on both BSA and Lufthansa. There was no business class between coach and First Class then (or on any of the earlier transatlantic flights I’d taken as a child on various airlines. I think Air India had some ‘inbetween’ class, but as far as I could observe, there was no real difference in service or comfort, and I don’t know about the charge. It may have been a PR thing)

However, I flew transatlantic several times in 1981 in what we’d call “business class” (“ambassador class” on Lufthansa; I don’t recall what British Airways called it)

The practice may have been recently introduced on some shorter domestic routes, but it’s hardly new to the industry. Part of the reason is probably logistical: smaller jetliners, including the lesser self-proclaimed widebodies (L-1011, DC-9) didn’t have sufficient galley facilities (or even enough curtain partitioned zones) to implement a true separate business class for ca. 20% of their passenger. They’d have had to set aside 1/3 the fusilage length, which simply wasn’t worthwhile.

10

Some comments from the very long haul perspective. I’ve flown the Sydney to London route quite a few times. This flight takes about 24 hours or so, including a couple of hours hanging around in Singapore or Bangkok on the way. I have travelled in all three classes at various times on both Qantas and BA.

Business class is a huge improvement on economy class. The seats turn into beds which allow one to get a decent night’s sleep and arrive at the other end feeling vaguely human. The food, drinks etc are also better, but are a minor issue when compared with the better seats. I think there’s value for money in the increased fare for business class. First class is better still, but only marginally so. It’s not sufficiently better to justify the huge fare (which can be almost twice the business class fare).

11

I have to pretty much endorse what Cunctator concluded - big difference between economy and business that I would consider (with airmiles!) for long hall/extra-long hall. But between business and first - no big deal. Recently flew first on Air France Paris-Luanda and did not realise I was in first until late on, though it was business (I do not examine my bus tickets closely!).

So I would say, sure go business but if it is your money do not bother going First. The only exception, so I hear, are on a couple of the Asian/Far Eastern airlines where, if you are male and enjoy the over-the-top attentive service from nubile young air hostesses then you can have some fun travelling Singapore Airlines long hall I hear.

Flat beds, full choice video etc etc is coming increasingly into business class (BA Jo’burg - London for instance) which makes the jump to first even less point. Travelled first once that route last year and it was ho hum.

12

First and business classes can vary wildly between carriers, aircraft types, furnishings/fittings, and type of flight (long/short haul).

For example some business class seats go flat bed. Some don’t. Some first class compartments have individual cabins. Some just have reclining seats like business class. Depending on the plane, a business class seat in one aircraft may be just as wide (or wider) than a first class in another.

I have flown “first” on flights where the seats were ancient economy ones, just spaced more widely. I fly business quite a lot, and it varies greatly. I personally think the extra money for first does not justify it over business, but it should always be remembered that pretty much no one ever pays for first class. Companies pay for first class, people write it off as tax, they spend airmiles on an upgrade - it’s very rarely someone dipping into their own pocket.

It’s more likely that a very tall person might pay for a business upgrade on a long haul flight, if “super economy” or “extra leg room economy” wasn’t available.

The very newest economy seats on something like Emirates (despite the questionable service) have advantages over business seats in other carriers, namely the on-demand entertainment systems. I flew business once where you could order a video cassette of what you wanted to watch, but the choice was far less than Emirates on-demand economy.

Food: I’ve had apalling food in both business and economy, as well as good food in both. Business is nearly always better than economy, but I have had inedible things in business.

13

US domestic first class is ok, but I don’t think it’s worth paying for a first class ticket unless you’re going coast to coast. Many airlines here have a program where if you’ve traveled enough with them, you can get bumped-up to first class for a nominal fee or een for free if you paid full fare.

I’ve had flights where I was lucky to get almonds, let alone a meal in first class. It doesn’t seem like there is any rhyme or reason as to how good the service will be in first.

For international stuff, I think first is the only way to go, as mentioned above. If you ever, ever, ever have a chance try Singapore Air First class. I swear I did NOT want to leave the plane…it was a vacation unto itself!! But I think it was ridiculously expensive.