Sometime when you’re in a big city in a high-end mall, take a look at an off-the-rack classic Chanel suit. Really look at it. It’s going to have a chain in the hem so that it always hangs right. It’s going to be fully lined - or possibly, not even lined at all because it doesn’t need it. The seams are going to be perfect. It’s going to have much finer fabric than a crappy suit. It’s going to fit you better, and assuming you pick a simple style and don’t get much fatter or thinner it will last you for the rest of your natural life. That’s one kind of “value” in high end clothing - obviously there are other reasons to buy other kinds of high fashion goods, but buying classic clothes that will last forever is one of them.
I’m terrible at fashion and looking good, and just like FairyChatMom, I would love to have someone who knows what they’re doing help me look great. Also, like her, if it wasn’t easy to incorporate into my daily life and routine, it’d be a fun one-off.
However, I moved in with a woman who watches Project Runway regularly, and I was hooked from the first moment I saw it. I didn’t get to see every episode (and I moved in about half way or so through the most recent season), but every one I saw was fascinating. I look forward to seeing it again. It doesn’t, however, seem to help me figure out what to wear. The few Tim Gunn’s Guide to Style or What Not to Wear episodes I’ve caught also seem like they’re in a foreign language, so while it’s interesting, I feel that fashion and looking good (for lack of a better term) are still beyond my ken.
As for the skirt, tremorviolet, I think that’s gorgeous. I would like to wear more skirts, but I don’t seem to get along with them. However, every time you link to shoes or clothing, I’m entranced. You clearly have really good and interesting taste. It seems you could be that person who knows what they’re doing and tells frumps like myself what to do.
I dunno. I think you guys are all feeling the love for designers but forgetting they put out some ABSOLUTE CRAP which costs just as much as something lovely, flattering, and well made.
J.Crew, another retailer who is on the upper end of mid-grade, wanted $350 for this fashion disaster. Don’t even try to tell me that the quantity or quality of the fabric justifies the price. We all know it doesn’t.
So, yes, expensive clothes can be good investments but bear in mind, a high price tag is no guarantee of anything – I have an Ann Klein wool dress coat I paid a pretty penny for that began to lose buttons within the first wearing. I think I’m down to two at this point.
And in counterpoint, I just this year gave away a Christian Dior coat I bought in 1994. It looks as as good today as when I bought it.
I paid a fortune for that coat ($600), but divide that cost by the number of times I’ve worn it, and it’s practically free. The friend who has it now was shocked it was 14 years old–it shows zero wear and it was a really nice timeless trench style done in a fantastic wool.
I just got rid of a Stanford sweatshirt someone picked up for me when I was a high school senior - I’m 41 years old, LOVED that sweatshirt, and it had faded a bit (it was red - anyone’s red is going to fade) over the past 22 years, but the stitching was still all intact, no rips - and I think it was $22 in the Stanford gift shop in 1984 - which in 1984 made it a darn expensive sweatshirt. And, being a sweatshirt, it just got tossed in the wash.
Sometimes the strangest things hold up well, I have a cheap poly crepe shirt from Target that drapes incredibly well, washes like a dream, is so simple its never going out of style and I’ve owned for a decade - sometimes the things you paid a ton for from a designer for a reputation for quality don’t.
So true. I had a pair of jeans I got for $30 in high school and I wore them for six years before they finally started falling apart. On the other hand I bought a pair of Tommy Hilfiger jeans (can’t remember exactly how much they were - over $100, under $200) and the bottom ripped just after a year. On the OTHER other hand, the pair of 7 For All Mankind jeans I got last summer are holding up very nicely.
Which reminds me - I need to get a new pair of jeans - the Seven jeans are the only pair I have right now. :smack:
I’ve never had a good experience with Hilfiger jeans. Not only do they not hold up, but goddammit, if I wear a size eight or the equivalent in everything else, there’s no reason I should have to struggle to get my ass into a pair of size twelve Hilfigers. Tommy Hilfiger can bite me.
I think that the obvious applies here, which is that generally, but not invariably, you get what you pay for, and that an educated shopper looks as closely at the details as she looks at the price tag and the label.
Holy crap - that looks eerily like the junior high sewing class assignment we were required to make back in 1969. What’s even more eerie, I made mine in a plaid - not those same colors, but still… <cue Twilight Zone music>
FairyChatMom and BlueKangaroo, if you want someone to pick out clothes and dress you and all that jazz you don’t have to subject yourself to the vagaries of television makeover personalities. You can just go into one of the nicer stores and throw yourself into their capable hands.
Macy’s doesn’t count because they don’t actually employ people to sell clothes. They have some staff whose job it is to hide until the last possible moment and then operate a cash register. Probably they get a commission for getting you to sign up for their credit card.
There are lots of little small stores, boutique-y type places, in most every city. The people who work there are genuinely interested in making you look good, providing you’re willing to buy something, and will dress and re-dress you, making suggestions for what looks good and what goes together. They all spend lots of time in their store and so know what clothes they have and what fits with what. It’s sort of like those makeover shows but without the crying or the life changing reveal at the end. It’s just clothes, ya know?
As for designer clothes “holding up,” this isn’t necessarily the measure of quality that you should be using. Designer clothes made of finer fabrics will look, feel, and drape better but those qualities often come at the price of durability. Synthetic fabrics may last forever (they’re made of plastic) but they’re often less breathable, shrink more and don’t generally look or feel as nice as natural fabrics. If you go into a nice dress shop you will find dresses made of silk or silk charmeuse. They’re beautiful but they’re also incredibly delicate. Everything from jagged fingernails to being hung next to something with beads can and will ruin them. This doesn’t mean they’re low quality, though. There’s a lot of craftsmanship that goes into making a dress out of fabric which is so delicate it basically looks for any excuse to self destruct.
On the other end of the spectrum, I spent a damned long time trying to find a motorcycle jacket that fit comfortably and looked good. Most motorcycle gear seems to be sized for paunchy guys who haul out the hog every couple of weeks. There are definite jumps in quality from the no-name brands to the name brands to the fancy brands. At the low end you pay $200 for plastic looking leather with shitty seams and awkward fits. The name brands tend to have better quality leather but even paying $300-500 you still see things like loose stitching, so you have to be careful. But this is an area where money translates into quality. This was my old jacket which was tragically stolen. It cost a lot but it fit like a glove and had the nicest leather you’ve ever seen. Le sigh. My new jacket was similarly priced, but I expect it to last for a long time.
It depends. Lame answer, I know, but it’s true. There are a (rare) few designers who still use top-of-the-line fabrics and skilled tradespeople e.g. Hermes, but most of the ‘made in Italy’ stuff is actually made in China. I can’t recommend the book Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Lustre enough.
Talk to someone who works at a high end shop – profit margins are ridiculous. Figuring out what a piece actually cost (factoring in the designer’s profits) has led me to believe many houses are putting out outfits for pennies. I’ve gotten thousand-dollar Comme des Garçons dresses off the rack for under a hundred dollars because they were almost a season old.
Yes, some high end designers can make you look like a million bucks, but no more so than select mid-range labels. Regardless of quality, it does make sense that designer apparel would last longer than a KMart shirt if you treat one with kid gloves and wear the other to the gym (as for design, yes it can be painstaking, but it is also standard practice for many, many high end designers to buy vintage pieces or student designs and make replicas).
Margins are high, but its a low volume business. Which means margins need to be high on all ends to keep the shops open…and they need to be high on the designer end because fixed costs are spread over a relatively small number of units. This is especially true as you move past the mass designers (they really make and sell a ton of Coach handbags or Tommy Bahama shirts), and get into couture.
This is what I wanted to say as well. Whenever there’s a fashion thread, I know that I’m going to want to pay attention to whatever** tremorviolet** has to say.
I’ve wondered the question posed by the OP as well. I’ve flipped through fashion magazines which will feature a $400 tee shirt and wonder who the hell is paying that kind of money for a tee shirt. On the other hand, I do know that my Marshall’s purchases are not the kind of quality that lasts.
I’m in a position where it’s time to donate a lot of my old clothing to Goodwill and replace some items. While I won’t be buying any $400 tee shirts, I am going to try to just scrimp and save my pennies and purchase classic “investment” pieces.
Gosh, thanks. :o You know, I’m actually terrible at recommending stuff for other people; I know what I like and what looks good on me so I’m usually reduced to just talking about myself. I fully recognize that there are plenty of other perfectly fine looks in the world that don’t involve pencil skirts and pumps (for instance, dress pants: I don’t own a single pair as I just don’t like how pants fit me) but I don’t know much about them. (which is why I stayed out of DianaG’s evening dress thread, I think I’d be telling her what I would wear, not what would be good for her)
The thing is, nothing good is effortless. I think people have the mistaken idea some people just effortlessly know how to throw things together and look good. I’ll give you that some people have more of a knack than others but I guarantee you that those “effortless” dressers are actually a lot more aware and spend a lot more time researching fashion than people realize.
I always liked clothes but during my late twenties, I was very busy and broke going to school. Then I turned 30 and realized I dressed like a soccer mom (polos and Gap jeans everyday) so I made a conscious decision to start trying pieces that were a little more interesting and to start keeping up with current trends so I didn’t look like I was stuck in the past. (and this is so easy to do now with the internet, so much stuff available) By 35, I was out of school and at a “real” job so I had a little more money to spend and I started checking out what the (slightly) higher end stores had to offer, moving from Target and Old Navy to Banana Republic and J. Crew. Then I realized that for not much more than J. Crew, I could get a very, very nice skirt from Nordstroms or Niemans and, dang it, I was frugal in other parts of my life (my car is an '88) so I could splurge on Louboutins occasionally.
I agree a $400 t-shirt is kinda ridiculous however the $50 version (for a dressier T) will probably drape much nicer and last longer than the Old Navy version. And if you only need a few of t-shirts, why not buy two very nice ones rather than having 15 so-so ones? (most of us have a lot more clothing than we ever actually wear) I splurge on the skirts, jeans, and shoes but my work shirts are usually H&M or The Limited (I like the cut). Nicer tailoring than Target but still relatively inexpensive. There’s room for mixing it up. Splurge on one or two nice pieces you just love, love, love and mix them in with your everyday stuff and you’ll feel great everytime you wear them.
Ooop, sorry, didn’t mean to ramble on so long but thanks for the opportunity to put into words something I’ve been thinking about lately.
There is a law of diminishing returns…once you get past a certain price level, you are paying for a name. I actully own a few high end men’s suits (Corneliani, and Zegna). They are made with very high quality material, but the key thing is tailoring. A $300 suit can look as good as a $3000 suit, if the cheap suit is tailored well. As for the really insane priced stuff (Manohlo Blahnic shoes), it is just crazy-these items are for sale to the noveau riche crowd-who want to impress thm slves. The “old money” crowd isn’t about to buy this crap.
Well, tremorviolet, I do realize that the people who look effortlessly good are putting more effort in than I am. My problem seems to be that I come from a long line of, “Am I covered and warm enough? Yes? Then I’m good.” women, and I’m the worst of the lot. Now that I’m interested in figuring out more, and willing to learn how to put some more effort in, I seem to be in a situation where I can’t find someone to help me out.
Then, of course, there’s changes within a brand/designer. I used to be the no more than $20/pair jeans wearer, and they never ever fit properly. One day a friend pointed me in the direction of a different brand, and the $50/pair price tag had my jaw dropping, but the perfect fit had me pulling out my wallet. Once they wore out (and I was amazed that they lasted so much longer than the previous jeans too), I went back and found the same brand, style and size - poof! Wrong in all the same ways again. I bought them again, because at least they last more than 2x longer than the half as expensive jeans, but it was heartbreaking. I can’t imagine doing that with a pair of jeans at the $200/pair or more level.
Tenebras, that sounds like a good idea, but it will have to wait for now. I’m not even buying Target specials in clothing at the moment, as I’m out of work. Someday, though, I may well try something like that.
Here is where I must diagree. I have problem breasts thanks to the sheer amount of weight I lost. I went from a G cup to a full C, small D. I am not a person who will buy something just because it is cheaper – especially bras – a good bra is worth my boobs’ weight in gold. I have tried on bras that range from $3 up a bra that was “guarunteed to make <my> breasts look amazing” and cost upwards of $100. Guess which bras make my boobs look amazing and are better made? The $5.99 Hanes Her Way ones. No joke, when I see that Wal-Mart has this particular model in stock, I buy every one they have in a 34 D. They’re amazing in fit, quality and durability.
Do you ever get a chance to watch “What Not to Wear” on TLC? I’ve read that the make-over-ees sometimes try on hundreds of different pairs to find the cut and brand that flatters. Most of us don’t have the patience. It’s weird, there’s the perception that jeans are “easy” but I think they can actually be one of the most frustrating things to fit. Even two copies next to each other on the shelf of the same size and cut in the same brand can fit different. (I’ve read part of it is because of the difficulty of cutting heavy denim) I didn’t have a pair of jeans (beyond a very old pair for painting in) for literally several years because I couldn’t find any I liked. But I met a woman who was built similarly to me (proportionately very large thighs) whose jeans I admired and asked her what she wore.
That’s kinda what I did when I wanted to try different styles. I looked at what other women I admired were wearing and what items I liked and tried to find similar things. I cruised online websites to figure out which stores had the style of clothing I liked so I knew I didn’t need to waste time at Coldwater Creek because I don’t personally like flowy. And just to see what was current on the shelves. But if you hate something that’s trendy, don’t force yourself to wear it. I tried to force myself to wear an empire waist flowy top when they were everywhere last year and I was so uncomfortable. They look great on a lot of people but it’s not me.
I’m sorry, I’m rambling about me again, I’m rotten at advice.
Oprah did a show on fitting jeans once.
I actually don’t watch much TV at all. I caught PR when my roommate was watching it and I was home, and then the occasional show that caught my eye. That included WNTW and Tim Gunn’s show on occasion, but not often.
You’re right, though, I cannot imagine having the patience to try on 200 pairs of jeans. Especially when I know the feeling I’m going for, and I have a paranoia that my “style guru” would tell me it looks bad or is out of fashion!
I’m actually wearing my favorite, well-fitting jeans right now, and I love them so much. But I’ll never be able to wear them outside of the house again, as they are torn to hell. I’m sad that the style, cut and brand don’t seem to fit so well anymore, but it’s interesting that maybe that’s normal. I wouldn’t have realized it.
That said, there’s still some confusion for me. For example, these favorite jeans still fit like a dream - but I’ve lost 15lbs or more since I bought them. Why do they still fit so awesomely? The ones that didn’t fit well now fit flat out terribly. I expect that, except that the “good” jeans didn’t change. I think it’s things like this that convince people like me “it’s not worth the effort”.
Anyway, I do ask and compliment people on their clothing, but maybe I should be making more notes on body type. Which I have to figure out. Woe is me!
You know what’s funny? How many Navy guys own AMAZING suits. Know why? Because they have port calls in Asia.
Seriously. When my dad went to Hong Kong on a business trip, he spent something like $600 on a suit that was made by an honest to goodness tailor from scratch to fit him. Took two days. He’d spend that much easily on a nice suit here that had to be altered. I have never seen the man look so good as when he was wearing his Hong Kong suit. (He has since lost too much weight for it to fit him, and retired so he no longer wears suits except to funerals.) What that means is - what counts the most is fit. That is true no matter your size, your gender, your age, or your status.