To offer the feeblest of defenses of Gack, of course anyone posing a theory questioning Holocaust data is going to be published on a Holocaust-denier site. Who else would publish it?
Regardless, the theories fail spectacularly on their own merit anyway so even if we ignore their location it doesn’t change anything.
[QUOTE=GIGObuster;16683080 and overwhelming evidence that in other nearby locations even worse and more effective gas chambers and crematoriums were made and located.[/QUOTE]
Well, let’s have a look at those other gas chambers, Kremas 2, 3, 4.
They were destroyed at the end of the war, I’m not sure we know who destroyed them, but, I think the consensus is that the Nazis destroyed them to ‘hide the evidence’.
Each of them is a large L shaped building, one of the L wings was an undressing room, and the other the gas chamber, and the crematoria ovens were in the center.
Now, when the Nazi’s, let’s say, bombed the crematoriums to destroy them they did not bomb the wings, they bombed the oven rooms. So in at least one of the gas chambers you can still walk around although the roof has collapsed in places. This in itself indicates that it never occurred to the Nazis that anyone would claim that the storage rooms were gas chambers.
There is a fellow who made a very detailed study of this question, his name is Presssac, and it is his book that contains the blueprints of the crematoriums, some of the construction records, and all the information that he could assemble.
In the end he found ‘traces’ or indications, I forget the actual word he used, that the crematoriums had been gas chambers, but nothing definitive. I’m not sure whether this was before or after Fred Leuchter published his report on the findings of cyanide residue in the walls of the gas chambers at Auschwitz as well as the fumigation rooms where Zyklon was used to delouse clothing.
In any caxe, I believe that any examination of the physical evidence, the ruins of the crematorium, will find that their construction is perfectly consistent with them being crematorium, with partially underground wings for the storage of bodies, and completely inconsistent with them ever having been gas chambers.
And that was the point also, but you still think it helps you case.
It does not, the first gas chamber was a prototype, an early version, once the more effective gas chambers where made there was no need to use the less effective first location.
Let me try to understand your argument… ‘The Nazis weren’t as bad for for having massive crematoriums as they would have been if they had massive gas chambers.’
Is that about right?
The link goes to an article that describes a short movie of the holocaust shown in a shorts festival in Mexico, the reality was that the short was not disclosed that it was going to be shown, and the organizer and the group got lots of criticism for it.
In any case, freedom of speech was the only saving grace but the university involved in the festival made clear what they thought about the issue when a Holocaust memorial was made in 2009.
As others reported, the short was just debunked and recycled holocaust denialism.
And the fact that Arthur Butz is not a historian but a computational engineer is not encouraging. He has been censored by many of the people working in the institution where he has tenure.
…and still waiting for you,** Gack**, to state your position clearly on this subject, in your own words.
The “traces” Pressac found were traces of hydrogen cyanide gas residue. He reported that it didn’t seem to be a lot verses the samples he collected, and he was criticized for taking deep samples of brick when hydrogen cyanide wouldn’t have penetrated the brick.
Also, the destruction of the oven chambers makes sense for one reason:
You kill the flame, let the gas seep out and then toss in a match (or even a grenade). This would have worked for almost all of them, except the 2 or 3 ovens that heated via hot water from a single centralized boiler.
[QUOTE=Gack]
The Nazis had the prisoners take frequent showers…
[/QUOTE]
Actually, a lot of the time, only one.
So, a JFK conspiracy thread, and a Holocaust denier. We need a Moon hoax thread for the trifecta.
Regards,
Shodan
PS - A (hopefully not too proactive) good-bye.
Well we do have a creationism thread, I think that counts. 
The records for Auschwitz are available, the death rates were high, the capacity of the crematoriums built was commensurate with the death rate. There is no mystery.
I am continuously stating my position in my own words. Once we have reviewed the testimony I will summarize.
I was JUST thinking, as I read through this thread, about how nice it is to see that it’s not just us biologists that have to put with this sort of crap.
Then you agree the Holocaust happened. Glad you saw the light.
Leuchter, not Pressac.
Pressac’s the guy who wrote Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, and himself debunked the Leuchter report as well.
I’m curious, Gack…why do you think my great-grandma (who was in one of the Camps) lied to me? She saw her husband and a significant portion of her family murdered. She personally saw it. It wasn’t starvation or disease, it was brutal, intentional murder.
These weren’t holiday camps with regular happy-fun shower-times and bubble bath instead of soap, like you describe. She described the filth and squalor and cold and hunger and horror and despair of the camps. She was there.
So…why did she lie if you’re correct? What possible reason would she have to make up the story and tell it to a ~14 year old kid?
While we’re at it, what did happen to the ~30/40 relatives I should have had? They existed: I have pictures from before the Camps. But they all (with the exception of my Great Grandma) disappeared after. Did they all go into hiding to further some deviant & insidious Jew plot?
Your question won’t be answered, Fenris. It doesn’t fit with the preconceived narrative.
The comparison of Holocaust denial to creationism is a good one, actually. You can find inconsistencies, bad witnesses, poorly labelled evidence, and small errors of fact in the texts of any historical event. Any. Using Gack’s logic, I can cast doubt upon the existence of any historical event. I can make just as strong an argument as Gack’s that the Titanic never sank, that evolution is not true, that vaccines don’t work, that World War I never occurred, that Theodore Roosevelt was never President of the United States, that the earth is flat… anything. I could argue that last year’s Super Bowl never took place. It’d be so easy. Using this sort of logic we have people right now arguing that the Pentagon was hit by a missile, not an airplane, on September 11, 2001, a claim that is no less absurd than any other example I’ve come up with.
The entire point to reality denial is that you have to spend all your time arguing over the shape of a pebble but never acknowledge the mountain it sits at the foot of. Gack will not acknowledge your mountain. He can’t, lest he take his eyes off the pebble.
I have no idea whether or not your great-grandma was lying to you, and in fact I don’t even have an opinion on it, because I don’t know what she told you.
What is the full story? Which camp? What exactly did she see?
No you’re not. You’re continuously linking to discredited “authorities”.
Nothing you’ve alleged so far has improved your standing as a revisionist (at best) and a nazi apologist (at midst). At worst, well, I’ve already stated what I think of you and your position elsewhere on the board.
Just cut to the fucking chase and summarize.
Or shall I do it for you?..
Jews, gypsies, communists, homosexuals, etc, were killed in WWII but not nearly in numbers generally accepted. The Nazis had no intentions of killing them. They just wanted to relocate them. They all died of diseases and had to be mercifully cremated to avoid it spreading to the rest of the population. The Nazis were simply misunderstood and a great injustice has been committed by the world in maligning them as mass murderers. You’re just drawing your conclusions based on “research”.
That about right?
you’re a real piece of work and I don’t mind the mod warning me for saying it.
Maybe they gave her a piece of that sweet sweet Palestine action. You know, that patch of oilless fixer-upper desert the Jews got in return for the Holocaust narrative. :rolleyes: