Ouch! We are not, though.
Catalan isn’t really a proper language (like Basque); on the dialect ↔ language spectrum, is closer to dialect. Portuguese is a lot further away. It’s all political. The Franco regime cracked down on all local manifestations that could threaten the central rule. He knew all too well that politics is downstream from culture.
AIUI A Galician should only have problems with Aragonese and the likes if someone is obtuse. Everyone learns Spanish in School. Galician, BTW, is right between Spanish and Portuguese on the spectrum.
I’ve lived in Spain and last visited at the beginning of this year. To Spaniards, the Catalans are the equivalent of Parisians or Londoners: snooty, snotty and generally unpleasant. They claim they they are part of EUROPE and not the peninsula. Whatever, enough of the hijack.
If you haven’t seen Guernica, take the time to do so. It’s on permanent exhibit at the Reina Sofia (if not on loan) and it is spectacular. Many go to the Prado, which is fine, but it feels like mile after mile of portraits of nobility, nobility in a heroic pose on a horse, and warships. Plan ahead to get to what is interesting there or art fatigue may set in.
I remember the Madrid Metro as being excellent and the best and cheapest from airport to the City. It’s been a couple of years, though.
As with La Rambla, stay off Puerta del Sol and go into the small streets adjacent, where everything is cheaper and better.
Thanks!
If you like beer, you might want to try Fàbrica Moritz Barcelona.
It’s been more than 2 years since we were there, and I still remember the potatoes (which come with the ribs, which were also excellent).
That looks great!
All I could tell from my limited Spanish was that Catalan was certainly sufficiently different. OTOH, when I watched to movie Billy Elliot I had to turn on subtitles, even though my dad was from Yorkshire.
Barcelona for me brings to mind Manuel from Fawlty Towers. “He’s from Barcelona.”
No, it’s a Romance language and one of Spain’s five official languages: Spanish, Catalan/Valencian, Galician, Basque and Aranese (Telemark got it right). If you have a look at the websites of Spain’s AEAT revenue service and similar agencies in Spain, you’ll see that information is provided in anywhere from three to five of these languages, along with English and sometimes French.
If you prefer, have a look at this Wikipedia entry. Yeah, it’s Wikipedia, but the entry is well researched. The map at the top is interesting. As often happens, it’s also interesting to have a look at the Spanish-language version of the entry:
If you’re still not convinced, have a look at the fourth entry for “catalán” in the dictionary of the Real Academia Española, Spain’s official Spanish-language institution:
“Lengua romance que se habla en Cataluña y en otros dominios de la antigua corona de Aragón.”
Translation: Romance language spoken in Catalonia and other parts of the former Crown of Aragón.
Only in a short-sighted, cartoonish way, like US Southerners being perceived as violent, ignorant rednecks. No place for that kind of thing in Factual Questions, don’t you think?
This strikes me as a simple case of tribalism. I’m sure Catalans have equally choice words for Castillians. Bit like the rivalry between Scotland and the dominant England in the UK. That strong sense of independence is always going to get up the nose of unionists.
Fair enough.
However:
Its status as a separate language is still more a question of politics, rather than linguistics, as opposed to Basque.
It’s been a long time, but we enjoyed the central market and the tapas bars in Madrid. Our side trip to Toledo was also good. Haven’t been to Barcelona, but I have been along the Mediterranean coast to Malaga and Torremolinos. There is a drive from the coast up into the mountains to Ronda that is well worth the trip.
Bumping this thread as our trip is just a few weeks away. We will be spending 3 days (4 nights) in Madrid; 1 day trip to Toledo; and 2 nights (3 days) in Barcelona.
I have a pretty full agenda of things to see and do, but I thought I’d reach out one more time for any off-the-beaten-path things to do in Madrid or Barcelona. Things not so easily found in guides or travel blogs.
Hit me.
I’ll reiterate - Sagrada is absolutely amazing on a sunny day. The south-facing windows flood the interior with a mix of coloured lighting. There was the opportunity for a side tour to go up some of the towers under construction (back in 2016).
I’m not usually a tour guy, but we are taking a full day tour in Barcelona, including Sagrada, Park Guell, other Gaudi buildings and Montserrat. We end the day at Sagrada and have and extended tour up one of the towers.
That is going to be an exhausting day, enjoy!
In Madrid, go to la Plaza Santa Ana in the late afternoon (18:00 - 20:00) and enjoy a beer. Ask for ensaladilla rusa, boquerones, calamares a la romana, aceitunas, patatas fritas (or patatas bravas, if you don’t like crisps) and share. Simple and good. If you are still hungry, add something else, most is good.
You can do the same in Barcelona at la Barceloneta, not far from the beach.
I whish you good weather!
This is like saying that German is only a dialect of English (or the other way around) because they share a similar origin and have a lot of related words, as opposed to Hungarian, which is truly different. By your metric Italian or Portuguese are also a dialect of Spanish (or the other way around). I call bullshit, or you are looking for a fight. Do not say that in Catalonia. It is an unnecessary provocation. From your own link (with additional links):
During much of its history, and especially during the Francoist dictatorship (1939–1975), the Catalan language was ridiculed as a mere dialect of Spanish.[56][57] This view, based on political and ideological considerations, has no linguistic validity.[56][57]
In Barcelona we happened by the cathedral downtown (Pla de la Seu?) when there was some sort of folk dancing happening on the area in front, with everyone joining in. Not sure what exactly was going on, but it looked interesting.
Woah! I’m sitting in a hotel room just off La Rambla right now! Eat in La Masia. Be aware that going to all the Gaudi “attractions “ will cost you several hundred dollars. And lead you to the conclusion that at some time Mr Gaudi Sr must have said: “You know, son, nobody likes a show-off.”
I’ll expand on this when I have time. Some time over the next couple of days.
j
The street performers were incredible, keep an eye out. I’d love to return one day. I did drink at the fountain in Plaza Catalunya so yeah!
Nice, thanks! Tour’s already paid for so we will see what we see. Looking forward to more.
No not really. This is a hijack, so I’ll make it as brief as possible.
• Portuguese is on the spectrum.People in south Galicia and northern Portugal have a very similar language.
• Your comparing of German and English doesn’t really hold up. One of my oldest and best friends is from Hannover. He has a really hard time with German as spoken by the Swiss, and it’s the same language.
• I have no problem reading Catalan and Spanish is my third language. Portuguese is harder, I can read headlines and grasp maybe a third of a text. Spoken - no. Italian is even further away. Anecdata point of one.
• Spanish and Catalan is not further away than Swedish (my 1st) and Danish/Norwegian.
• And I still maintain that the issue with Catalan is based on politics, in many ways as a direct result of the Franco era. Without that, I doubt we’d have signs in two languages in Barcelona today. And had Italy stayed fascist after WWII, I’m absolutely certain that people in Milan would be going on like the Catalans are doing now.
Also be sure to see Gaudi’s Casa Batlló. Very interesting structural details as well as very lovely.