Questions for the lawyers here

In My Humble Opinion
1

I don’t think this falls under the category of “Legal advice,” since this is more related to law school than law per se, so…

I’m a graduate student in music trying to get into a few competitive law schools. I’m in Canada, but I suppose the experience is similar south of the border. I didn’t get through my first time applying, which compelled me to do my M.A. I’ve enjoyed my year and a bit, but now it’s time to rev up applications for November again.

My LSAT score was fair, my grades are o-k (83% avg. or so), and I’ve sought professional help with forming my personal statement/sketch/opening letter to the law schools. I have some relevant volunteer work (but could stand to do more) What I think is lacking, however, is personal experience in the field of law itself.

I thought about trying to get an unpaid internship working in a law firm, getting a better feel for the profession. I don’t even know if it would help improve my chances that much, but I’m hoping that it does. However, I don’t know any lawyers, and so I wouldn’t know how to go about doing this. If you happen to be an attorney reading this let me ask you: if somebody came, unsolicited, asking to work in some form of an internship, would you be receptive, or annoyed/uninterested? It doesn’t strike me as the most efficient way to find such a position, but in lieu of any other suggestions, it seems to be my best option. It seems like the sort of position you only get if you know someone. I sadly, know no one worthwhile for this endeavor.

Any input or help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

2

No experience in law whatsoever is required for law schol.

LSAT. LSAT. LSAT.

and more LSAT.

GPA is good. Letters are good. Experience is good. But without LSAT - it’s all meaningless. And with a good enough LSAT, equally meaningless.

I had a 2.36 gpa, no legal experience, no good letters, no volunteer work, etc. 168 LSAT - got into a few top 30 schools.

ETA: I did write what I considered a good personal statement.

Oh, and I also had some arrests and an academic dismissal as well as college disciplinary probation to go with my other fabulous credentials.

ETA: this may seem crazy - so here’s why. US News Rankings. They’re based mainly on LSAT (and gpa, but most schools do well enough on this) - and what firms recruit are based on US News rankings, plus it’s what the alumni care about.

3

Thanks for the head’s up!

I did get a 163, which I thought was a decent score on my LSAT. Perhaps I’ve just been fed misinformation, but I’m told that the law schools in Canada value the LSAT far less than in the U.S.

I know that the schools in Upstate NY I looked at (I’m in Ontario), all had LSAT requirements in the mid to low 150s. Ipso facto, I should be a lock for those. I should probably re-write them, just the same!

4

Agreed that legal experience isn’t all that important - in fact, law schools are just as likely to put a premium on interesting experiences outside the law. After all, they figure that they will teach you that stuff.

But if you do want the experience, don’t volunteer at a firm - what’s the point? Volunteer at the legal aid society, or a public defender’s office, or a local civil-liberties group - what’s the Canadian version of the ACLU?

5

The CCLA - that’s actually a really good idea that somehow I had neglected. Thank you!

6

I can’t imagine you’d have a problem with a 163 in the US - although I honestly don’t know much about Canadian law schools, sorry.

Good luck, I found law school very rewarding - although I opted not to practice law :slight_smile:

7

Well, I have a friend who’s moving down south to goto law school in California. The ones in Canada are subsidized by the state. So I’ve seen law school tuitions in the range of 8-10k, versus the 25k or so per year he’s prepared to pay. Of course, as economics teaches us, when you set a price ceiling, demand outstrips supply. Thus the dilemma I am in.

Thanks for your help and well wishes!

8

Since the OP is seeking advice, this is better suited for IMHO than GQ.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

9

At the University of Manitoba, LSAT counts for 2/5ths, GPA for 3/5ths.

If you can qualify as a visible minority (either ethnically – especially as Aboriginal, or as a non-traditional student, or some sort of handicap) there is a quota system with 10% of seats set aside.

I am led to believe that it’s not really all that hard to get in, anyway.

Also, with the new mobility laws, it is easier to go to another province to work if you want to.

Exams are all open book (but you really have to be organized); Bar Admissions occur during the articling year and exams are section-by-section.

As for unpaid internships, it would depend on what the Provincial Law Society has to say about this; don’t be surprised if they disallow it, preferring to keep such positions for articling students (who also do get paid).

And no, you really don’t need any form of law experience to get into Law School. If you want experience, however, my suggestion would be to just attend court whenever you can. You can learn a lot from just doing that.

Also, most Law Students create or are involved in creating “Outlines”, which are an overview of the course, and you can learn a lot from reading them; if you have the texts used, it also helps a little.

See some outlines here; you can also search online for them too:

http://www.law-wiki.com/wiki/Canadian_Law_Outlines

10

No worries. :slight_smile:

11

Do you plan to attend law school in the US or Canada? Practie law in the US or Canada?

Because if you intend to go to law school in the US, but practice in Canada, you’re going to have to figure out a plan re: your “articling.” Since American law students don’t do that, a US law school will be no help at all, and might not have even heard of the requirement.

Anyway, as others have said, US law schools pretty much throw your entire application in the trash other than your LSAT score.

12

I thought about U.S. Law School. It’s more expensive, but my bigger concern is a) moving that far away from home (yeah, I suck), and b) Having to come back and do an equivalency degree after the fact. Unless I spend a few years practicing law wherever I studied, they would expect me to do an extra year of studies above and beyond my J.D. to make my American law degree acceptable in Canada before they let me article and be called to the bar.

13

I agree that LSAT scores count for a great deal in admissions to Canadian law schools. So does your GPA. But I don’t recall that Canadian schools looked at much else (except in the case of mature or aboriginal candidates). As a result, I’m unsure if your plan to “gain experience in law” would be useful. It certainly couldn’t hurt, but I don’t know if it would really help.

There are some good ideas here; among them, just going to the courthouse and watching what happens in the courtrooms. I’d add that you can read a couple of resources that may help you understand what court you’re looking at (provincial civil, provincial family, a superior court or Queen’s Bench, a Court of Appeal), and otherwise serve as excellent introductions to Canadian law in general. These may help you more than any sort of internship:

The Canadian Legal System, by Gerald Gall

On Coming to Law: An Introduction to Law in Liberal Societies, by F.C. DeCoste

I’ve read both. IMHO, of the two, Gall’s work may be more accessible to the person unfamiliar with the study and practice of law; and I have found it in public libraries. DeCoste’s is a little more philosophical and harder to find, but well worth reading once you have a handle on the basic concepts.

14

Thanks. (Thanks to all of you who have contributed, in fact! I’m really astounded at the responses) My problem is that schools I looked at applying to said they would not look at whatever grades I got in grad school. Understandable, given how anything less than an B+ in many grad programs is considered a smack in the face. But then, how am I supposed to improve my GPA? Surely they don’t expect me to go and take a bunch of first year electives just to bolster my GPA…do they? :dubious:

It’s not that it’s especially low - I’m hovering at around the 83-4% mark, but that’s just at the cutoff line for many of these programs, and since I’m starting year seven at university this coming fall, I’m pretty much at “I have to get in anyplace anywhere” attitude now. One of my best friends is up and moving to California; he was a solid C+ student with a 169 on his LSAT that got a 30k scholarship to goto Whittier. That seems extreme.

Like I said, without sounding cocky, I have the grades and the GPA to pretty much get my pick of the dozens of “second-tier” law schools in the states. By contrast, there’s only 15 English law programs in Canada, which makes it all that more competitive to get into.

15

Competitive, sure, but you would probably qualify as a “mature student”, which could actually give you somewhat of an advantage. I know that the University of Manitoba gives extra consideration to people who are older than the average Law student.

16

Part of the challenge lies in the fact that technically, the study of law at a Canadian university is considered an undergraduate program. So, your graduate school grades would not be considered. It’s silly, I agree, but for what it’s worth, you’ll find a number of people with graduate degrees in a law school class. Heck, in my graduating law class, we had a number of people with master’s degrees and at least two Ph.D.s.

I’d suggest applying to your choice of Canadian schools anyway. If you plan to practice in Canada, it seems to me that you’ll ultimately save yourself some time by taking the necessary Canadian constitutional, administrative, and criminal courses now, rather than having to go back and pick them up later.

17

Yes, I’ve heard this before, at least with the LLB. That’s also why, apparently, I couldn’t apply for OGS funding for it. I’m wondering if it’s different for programs where they’ve decided to adopt the Juris Doctorate like in United States! U of T said in a roundabout way that they didn’t care too too much about my grad studies; I know the american programs I looked at had a place on their applications to list graduate experience.