Questions for US dopers

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have some questions for US dopers. Having never been in your country I have to rely on reading, TV, movies and stories from friends to find out what life is like there. Now I do realise that it is a huge country and most generalisations will be invalid if applied to the whole country but there are a few things I wonder about. Some are just mundane and some are serious. Please note I am not looking for pure factual answers, I am looking for anecdotal evidence – your personal experience.

The serious ones first:

Number one – Is the standard of science (and other) education really that dismal? In a few threads people talk about the poor standards of science education. On this board especially, there appears to be a presumed assumption that the average American is fairly ignorant of science and history and knows little about the rest of the world. By the same measure this board seems to go counter to this claim as most people here seem to be above average about general science, history and the rest of the world (but this board would not seem to reflect the average person’s knowledge)…

**Number two **– how rife is racism? Would it be noticeable to an outsider, or is it kept underground? Would a black tourist, for example, leave the country feeling there is no racism or would they experience direct discrimination? Which are the most racist areas and which the least?

Number three – how religious is the average person? If you are an Atheist, can you comfortably bring it up in conversation or do you keep it to yourself? Do people pray before they eat? Do people go to church regularly? Do you have pressure on you to conform to some faith? When you fill in a form do you write down a religion even if you don’t really have one?

Number four – how law abiding is the average citizen? When I was in Europe I realised a lot of things rely on the average person being law abiding. Things like trains, trams and busses are often not patrolled and you basically pay on your own. Here in SA it would not work at all. Cops are bribed regularly, traffic laws like the speed limit are exceeded all the time, most people here seem to look at the law as a guideline only. This I presume would not be tolerated or allowed in the US. One of the reasons is you have a higher proportion of cops. But if no one is watching, how law abiding are you (general you)?

And the things I was just wondering:

Number one - what does the average person eat day to day? (To qualify – I’m not talking about first or second generation immigrants, I’m talking about pure red blooded Americans, born and raised. To further qualify – we have something called “boerekos” (boiled veg, roast potatoes, rice and lots of meat – cholesterol heaven) which is the standard fare of the Afrikaners and a lot of English South Africans. Black South Africans also have a regular type of food with maize and meat being the staples. Is there some type of “typical” American fare that people eat in their homes? If you go away and you long for a home-cooked meal, what do you long for?

Number two – How “middle class” is middle class America? Does everyone have a TV, microwave, dishwasher and car – or are some of these things unaffordable for the average person. Do you go away on holiday every year? Twice a year? Three times? Can most people afford a decent restaurant meal every week? More or less often?

**Number three **– If I come for a visit, what would I be surprised about? One of the reasons I haven’t come is there is nothing that specifically seems to appeal to me. I like history and therefore like Europe, the Middle East and Asia. But America is a young country and does not offer that much in the way of history. What would I be able to see that I absolutely, definitely should not miss and cannot see anywhere else? (I’m definitely not thinking of things like the biggest ball of twine or longest hot dog)

**Number four **– why do you insist on leaving out the ‘h’ in herb? And why do you pronounce the word caramel as CAR-mel?

2

I honestly don’t know if these questions have satisfactory answers, because in a country with ~300 million people, it’s nigh impossible to find the “average” anybody. A lot of the answers depend on where you are – the average middle-class family in rural Montana is going to have a different lifestyle (eat different things, have a different experience with racism, etc) than the average family in urban Boston or suburban Indiana. (And even then, it would be tricky to generalize experiences.)

I will say that, to address the number three in your second set of questions, don’t forget that Native American cultures have been here for thousands of years and have landmarks/cultural events/museums, etc. for people to visit. For example, I think Crow Fair outside of Crow Agency, Montana in mid-August would be an interesting experience for international visitors. I think it’s the largest powwow in the US (I’m pretty sure it’s bigger than the All Nations powwow in Santa Fe, but I might be wrong) and draws participants from tribes all over the US and Canada.

Number four made me think of Eddie Izzard and laugh. But, hey, “hour” and “honor” have "h"s in them, and no one pronounces those, either. :wink:

3

I agree with gallows fodder, the country is much too large to answer any of these questions for the entire country. You would get better answers if you cut the country up into regions.

Also, for Number 3 of your ‘just wondering’, there are natural phenomena such as the Painted Desert and AuSable Chasm which just have to be seen to be believed. The natural wonders of the U.S. are many.

Oh, and in Mississippi we say CARE-uh-mel. :wink:

4

You’ve given us a lot of area to cover, and you’ll undoubtedly receive a variety of answers. Here are mine. Take thenm for what they’re worth.

The standard of education is actually pretty good. However, the standard of universal, tax-supported public education means there are lot of students in schools that might be moved to vocational education in other societies. As a result, there’s a persistent strain of anti-intellectualism.

How aware you’d be of racism would depend a lot on what you were looking for. Things like a black man not being able to get a cab where a white man can, black shoppers feel they’re being followed around by the store staff while shopping. A white person might never even be aware of it.

There’s an old saying in the U.S., “don’t talk about religion or politics.” In my experience, most people do not pray before they eat (at least they don’t fold their hands and bow their heads), and “Regular” church attendence is defined as “when I feel like it.”

While speed limits are pretty consistently ignored, the average American will put the correct fare in the box. Bribing police officers is generally frowned upon. Corruption in the U.S. is more often a case of “friends doing favors for friends.”

“Pure red-blooded Americans” don’t all eat the same thing. Many people prefer to “graze” throughout the day than sit down to a scheduled meal. I suppose the stereotypical American diet would include cold cereal, toast, or bagels for breakfast, a sandwich or salad for lunch, and a simple-to-prepare main dish (spaghetti, chicken, meat loaf, pork chops) for the evening meal.

The presence of TV in American households is overwhelming – greater than 90% of homes have at least one TV. Low-cost microwave ovens are also universal. Dishwashers are somewhat less common, because they take up more space, but certainly widespread. As for automobiles, the last statistic I saw was that there is one privately owned vehicle for every two persons.

Since you feel we’re too young to have history, I’d suggest you visit our natural wonders: the Grand Canyon, Yosemite National Park, Niagara Falls. I guarantee you’ll be impressed.

As ofr your last question, all I can say is “why do y’all insist on talkin’ funny?”

5

Like many people, most American probably forget a lot of what was taught in school that they don’t use regularly. Dopers may seem to be brighter than average, but that could be just us patting ourselves on the back.Like the Dopers, Americans come in a variety of economic classes. But you’d be very hard-pressed to find even struggling Americans that don’t have cars and microwaves and multiple TVs. Excepting the homeless, most families will have more than one car, more than one TV, and a microwave. In fact, most Americans have too much stuff, rather than too little.

Religiosity varies through the country. My family was always raised going to church on Sunday and saying grace before meals. I still attend Mass weekly, however I rarely seem to remember to say grace when I’m eating a sandwich while sitting at my computer. Most forms don’t include a section for religion, because we feel that’s private and isn’t a part of school or government life.

I’ll leave the racism question to someone who is more likely to experience it.

People here regularly drive 5-10 miles an hour over the speed limit. Most people are law-abiding, however. I’m sure that some cops take bribes, but that’s not from Joe Jaywalker. There are more lawless areas, often where gang violence and drug dealing take place, but these aren’t places where tourists go. I feel safe in my home, which I don’t bother to lock, even when I’m not there. I do have several large dogs as pets.

Average meal varies from place to place and socio-econmic group to socio-econmic group. On coastal areas you’re likely to find seafood eaten more often than in middle-America, where it has to be shipped in. People eat too much. Many people eat out, and the portions (in my experience) are enough for at least two meals.

You might be surprised at how large and diverse America is compared to Europe (Yes, I see you’re from SA). People live well-dispersed throughout the country, although the Western half is less populated except for the coast. The average American family owns their own home, on a reasonable piece of land (most suburban yards are 1/4 - 1/2 an acre). People generally get less vacation time than in Europe, with 2-3 weeks a year average. " 'Erb" makes us feel like it’s “Cuisine” instead of pot roast. :wink:

StG

6

Being a Canadian I shouldn’t really be answering here, but I feel that given the set of questions, and the cultural parallels between our two countries, I am qualified. (And the fact that I’ve been to a number of States over the years…)

Education:
All you need to do is look at the vast number of technology companies and the employees who work there. Sure there are people educated outside the U.S. working there, but obviously the majority are U.S. born and raised.

Racism:
For the most part completely and utterly non-existent. For the most part.

Religion:
You’re free to practice any religion of your choice. You could mention being atheist, but obviously you need to appreciate your audience. Common sense prevails.

Law Abiding:
No different than any other western democracy. In fact probably better than some. Police are professionals and will not be bribed. In fact you will be charged if you attempt to bribe a cop. (There are no doubt some bad apples out there. Like .01% of the force.)

Food:
Very diverse and cosmopolitan. Although the U.S. is looked upon as being the hamburger capital of the world, and there are plenty fast food joints, most people enjoy a variety of well-balanced meals consisting of the traditional meat, potato and vegetable, to anything and everything international.
Middle Class:
Yes. Everyone in middle class has and does what you mentioned. An expensive vacation once a year, perhaps not.

Visit:
You would be surprised by the size and by the diversity from state to state. And the vast wide open spaces, parks, reserves, etc.

Herb:
From Dictionary.com
The word herb, which can be pronounced with or without the (h), is one of a number of words borrowed into English from French. The (h) sound had been lost in Latin and was not pronounced in French or the other Romance languages, which are descended from Latin, although it was retained in the spelling of some words. In both Old and Middle English, however, h was generally pronounced, as in the native English words happy and hot. Through the influence of spelling, then, the h came to be pronounced in most words borrowed from French, such as haste and hostel. In a few other words borrowed from French the h has remained silent, as in honor, honest, hour, and heir. And in another small group of French loan words, including herb, humble, human, and humor, the h may or may not be pronounced depending on the dialect of English. In British English, herb and its derivatives, such as herbaceous, herbal, herbicide, and herbivore, are pronounced with h. In American English, herb and herbal are more often pronounced without the h, while the opposite is true of herbaceous, herbicide, and herbivore, which are more often pronounced with the h.

7

VERY interesting. I’ll even have to cut down my snarking a little. bit. :wink:

Depends. Much of what you’ve heard is, sadly, true. Thing is, though, when schooling is outstanding, it’s really outstanding. The country works as well as it does just by volume; i.e., we’re so big, even a relatively small proportion is a lot of educated people.

Touchy topic. I’d call it understated. Overt rudeness won’t go over too well, but there’s a lot of “voluntary segregation.” The nastiest stuff is more likely to be encountered in poor areas. Inner cities, for instance.

I’m too irreligious to really say. Churches are everywhere, but you can make it all an ugly background hum if you work at it. Never heard of this having to put a religion on an official form thing.

Very much a matter of perspective. Most lawbreaking is pretty casual - breaking speed limits (but not by too much), smoking…stuff (just keep it discreet). The more serious crimes are deliberate actions by people who are trying hard to be criminals; robbers, murderers, parking ticket scofflaws and the like. Generally, US cops are friendly, and while they won’t put up with guff if they catch you at something, are often able to suffer temporary blindness if its nothing big. Bribery doesn’t work, unless it involves a LOT of money AND an already corrupt officer. I myself am as pure as the driven snow. Cheating on trainfares and the like is not something I’ve seen much.

Sounds about right, but 'Murkins often have this mindbendingly nasty “bread” substance instead of rice or maize. Me? A well-made meatloaf & mashed potatoes is up there.

Yes, all Americans have those things, even poor people. Except for dishwashers. The rest, I disqualify myself from answering, 'cause I really am broke.

Question too unspecific. A lot of history here is done sort of jingoistically, so YMMV. If you’re looking for “can’t get this anywhere else” experiences, go for our many natural wonders. All those dramatic photos you’ve seen of the American landscape? NOTHING compared to the real thing.

To piss you off.

8

Science education is very good in my opinion. Not everyone is going to be a science genius but for those who go in that direction for secondary education there are pleny of bright people, plenty of colleges for them, and plenty of companies that employ them.

**Number two **– how rife is racism?
It’s around but it depends on where you visit. Any major U.S. cities as a black man I don’t think you’d notice a thing. Even in small rural towns by yourself I don’t think you’d notice a thing. But if it was you and 5 of your closest black friends wandering into a restaurant in a tiny town they make give you some funny looks and keep an eye on you.

Number three – how religious is the average person?
Tons of churches and religions. Most people you’d encounter go to church once a week and forget about it the rest of the week. Nobody really “asks” what your religion is. The only people who might pressure you into a religion are your family or very close friends.

Number four – how law abiding is the average citizen?
Depends on the law. Everyone speeds going 65-70 in a 55 but occasionaly you do see some idiot flying by everyone doing 90 but the cops will nab him sooner or later. There are plenty of people who steal but they are seen as criminal and it will catch up to them sooner or later.

And the things I was just wondering:

Number one - what does the average person eat day to day?
Varies tremedously. Burrito on Monday, Chicken fried rice on Tuesday, turkey and mashed potatoes on Wednesday, pizza on Thursday, soup and sandwich on Friday, meatloaf on Saturday, etc. etc. etc.

Number two – How “middle class” is middle class America?
TV, microwave, car, are pretty much staples.

**Number three **– If I come for a visit, what would I be surprised about?
How big the country is and how varied it is. Prairie, mountains, desert, beaches, forests, sprawling cities, sprawling farmlands.

**Number four **– why do you insist on leaving out the ‘h’ in herb? And why do you pronounce the word caramel as CAR-mel?
[/QUOTE]

Just some Americans. We also have multiple accents from Southern, New York, New England, West Coast, midwestern.

9

Here’s a few answers for you, from my perspective:

  • Education: Really varies. History as taught in the schools is definitely US-centric, and most people tend to forget what isn’t in their face every day. On the other hand, I know a lot of people who know a huuuuge amount of history about their particular area, or events like World War II.

Americans get a bad rap when it comes to geography as well, but I’ve met plenty of Europeans who don’t know geography outside of Europe. Most Americans know the general geography of their area.

  • Racism: Being white and middle class, I’m not the best to answer this question. Obviously racism exists, but I think other people can comment better than I.

  • Religion: America is way too religious for my tastes, and it seems to be getting worse the older I get. I definitely would not mention Atheism to anyone but people I know were OK with it. I don’t hang out with people who pray before they eat, but I know they exist. I know a lot of people who go to church every Sunday. On the other hand, I can’t think of any form that’s asked me my religion. I wouldn’t write it down if it did.

  • Law abiding: Most people I know abide by most laws. The ones I see broken most often are speed limits and fudging taxes.

  • Food: Here’s my typical day’s eating: Breakfast, either eggs and toast, or cereal, or maybe toast & jam. Lunch: Pretty light usually - leftovers from last night’s dinner, a sandwich (peanut butter & jelly, or ham & cheese, maybe tuna salad). Dinner can be a stew or soup, pasta, or maybe a small steak and vegetables on the side. I try to get veggies in me at least once a day, in the form of a salad or a vegetable side dish.

  • Middle class: I don’t know anyone, even lower class, who doesn’t have a TV, microwave, and car. Unless you live in a city with good mass transportation, or are seriously poor, you have a car in the US - you simply can’t get around most places without one. TVs are cheap and ubiquitous. Microwaves are the same. Dishwashers? I’ve rented apartments when I was a student without dishwashers, but other than that, I’ve always had one. However, I do know a lot of people without dishwashers.

Most middle class people have at least two weeks a year paid vacation. That usually means one week going someplace, and the rest are used for long vacations or whatever. Personally I think that’s way too little vacation time, but I’m self-employed and pretty much take as much time as I can afford.

Restaurants: Most people I know eat out a few times a month, moreso when I lived in a bigger city. Around here, people tend to eat out not as much, primarily because most socializing is done in people’s homes, not out at a bar or restaurant.

Visiting: It’s true that the US doesn’t have old history the way Europe does, but it does have a fair bit of history. Depending on where you visit, you’ll be able to see historical sites and museums that rival anything in Europe.

We’ve also got Native American historical sites, like Mesa Verde and Bandolier National Monument where you can see cliff dwellings hundreds of years old. That’s not as old as a lot of stuff in Europe - but it’s a whole different thing and I think it’s unfair to compare the different cultures. It’s pretty amazing to be standing on the side of a 200 or 300 foot mesa on a dwelling carved into the side.

But what really shines in the US is nature. Sights like the Grand Canyon, the Colorado Mountains, rain forests in Washington State, the ubiquitous hardwood forests all over the northeast - you just don’t get stuff like that in Europe. (OK, maybe some in Asia and the Middle East, but not exactly).

10

Becuase we’re Americans, damnit.

11
  • Education: Overall the education is good, but the retention is piss-poor. If you don’t use it, then it is lost. I’ve found that most people can remember the concepts if pushed, but they don’t seem to understand them intrinsically when viewing the world. Most Americans will remember the basics of earth science and baby physics. Forget about chemistry and biology if they don’t work in those sectors.

Geography is hit and miss. Most know their local area well, and can identify the continents, America and other easy to remember countries, as well as any capital or city that has a funny name.

  • Racism: Pretty tame really. Racism tends to fall more along socio-economic and cultural lines now then racial ones. In other words, poor, inner city African Americans will often get the hairy eyeball from authority figures, but so will anyone else who obviously comes from a poorer culture; white, hispanic or otherwise. A visitor from another country will be pegged immediately if they have an accent and be treated courteously in nearly all areas. The ones that you would have trouble in are not visited by tourists anyway.

  • Religion: It’s everywhere in America, with Christianity dominating. It isn’t too in your face though, and nearly no one discussed religion outside of close circles. Older churches like the Catholics, early protestants, orthodox, and the various jewish temples, fly under the radar. You won’t notice them unless you like to visit churches and temples. The media loves the fanatical evangelicals though, and they get a lot of air-time when they try to stir the pot. Smaller religions are common, but the churches are not. Atheists are fine in most cities, but I wouldn’t go spouting off about it in small towns.

  • Law abiding: Most American obey the majority of sensible laws. Speeding, littering, Jay-walking, and trespassing make up the majority of the usual infractions. People will generally not abuse honor systems.

  • Food: Everyone else has addressed this pretty well. You can get ANYTHING here. Most people eat what they are in the mood for.

  • Middle class: Nearly everyone has the items you mentioned, with the dishwasher, and a car being optional in certain areas. Most people need a car though. America is a lot bigger than most Europeans realize.

-Visiting: See our beautiful natural wonders, there is nothing like it anywhere else. America also has a lot of offbeat touristy things to do, the world’s largest hotdog might be on your way to that national monument; stop off and take a photo there.

12

It varies wildly. It is possible to get a very good education in the U.S., but it’s also possible to get one that’s very lacking, and if you search the whole country for anecdotal evidence of dismal educational standards, it’s not hard to find. Part of the problem is that public education is, for a large part, locally funded, so it makes a difference whether you live in a rich or a poor district.

Institutionalized racism or overt, official discrimination is a thing of the past (and is, to the extent it can be, illegal). Racist people certainly still exist. Whether you would encounter racism, or the extent to which it is a problem, depends on where you go and whom you hang around with—and is a subject of some controversy, since it’s not always easy to tell whether a particular incident was motivated by racism or not.

I imagine either could easily be the case.

The average person? I’m not sure there is such a thing. Religiousity varies pretty widely, both from person to person and from region to region.

Depends on whom you’re with.

Some do, some don’t. You’ll almost never see it in restaurants, but among families who sit down together around the dinner table at home, the custom is not dead.

A lot of people do; a lot of people don’t.

No, unless you live/work/socialize with people who do that sort of thing.

If you live in a big city with good public transportation, you may not have a car, but in many areas it’s a necessity. Other than that, if you can’t afford a TV or a microwave or a car of some sort, you are definitely considered poor.

My impression is that one week-long vacation a year is fairly typical. Some people travel a lot more than that, some don’t travel at all, but as far as I know, Americans get less vacation time than Europeans.

There is history here; it just doesn’t go back as far (for the most part). Here in Springfield, IL, for instance, tourists come for the Abraham Lincoln-related sites.

13

Number one – Is the standard of science (and other) education really that dismal?

Nah. Most Americans know an average amount about science, history, and the rest of the world, though to be honest not as much as non-American Dopers would lead me as an American to think some other countries do. IMO, the average American accepts evolution, not creationism, but couldn’t tell you what DNA stands for; knows broad Western history but couldn’t tell you a thing about Africa, much less African history; knows the major issues in Iraq and Iran (as told to them by the media) but couldn’t pick the two countries out on a map. Americans do tend to be very culturally egocentric, no question.

Number two– how rife is racism? Would it be noticeable to an outsider, or is it kept underground?

Very underground in most of the country – as far as I know as a white person, which is of course not very far. Racial equality is a national philosophy and so while racism exists it is not acknowledged. But you still hear about black shoppers being watched more closely in a store than white shoppers and being pulled over more frequently by law enforcement. Rather oddly, my experience of moving to the South has been that the South actually has fewer race issues than the Northwest of America, where I came from. Growing up in Montana where there are next to no black people, my impressions of black folks came from TV, where if you were black you were a starving-but-strong person trying to escape from the ghetto; a criminal; or a Cosby kid. Even in Seattle, there aren’t many black people and they tended to be economically disadvantaged. In the South, there are lots of black people and many of them are middle class to very wealthy, and it is harder to retain assumptions about what black people look like, talk like, work at, or earn. I have lived her for two years and I have never met anyone who exhibited a single sign of racism though, again, I would not expect anyone to be open about it anyway. I certainly understand that just because I as a white girl don’t see it, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Number three – how religious is the average person?

The average American believes in God but doesn’t go to church. Cite. How religious do you consider that to be?

Number four – how law abiding is the average citizen?

Very law abiding. Although there is more violent crime due to access to guns, there is an expectation (again, almost a national philosophy) that citizens owe obedience to the law. Bribery of public officials, for example, is severely frowned upon and when people are caught doing it, it is a firing offense and perhaps a scandal. That said, just like every where else there is a certain amount of petty offenses that are done because (a) people think they can get away with it and/or like the thrill of it (graffitti); or (b) people decide to gamble on getting caught and pay the consequences if they do (speeding). But even those who are caught do not protest in defense that they thought the law was merely a guideline and that no one really takes it seriously. They just deal with having been caught.

What does the average person eat day to day? A lot of food by world standards, and a lot more processed food. Lots of snack food, lots of fast food, lots of take out. For home cooking, Americans still eat a lot of pasta, chicken, and beef.

How “middle class” is middle class America? Very upper class by world standards. Even people who are considered poor by American standards will have a TV, microwave, and probably a car. (Maybe not a dishwasher, but they are very common too.) It is worth keeping in mind though that given the distances and lack of public transportation in many areas in the States, a car is not considered a luxury, it’s considered a necessity. As a gross generalization, middle class people take vacations usually once a year (for a week or maybe a max of two weeks, in the summer), and also take time off around Christmas, though apparently not as much time as people in European nations do (a few days, not a couple of weeks).

If I come for a visit, what would I be surprised about? Can’t say, because I don’t know your circumstances.

I think you might be surprised by the size of the country, if you did not stay all in one place. You might be surprised by the apparent wealth (depending on what you’re used to) – very large well-stocked grocery stores, lots of cars – though for all I know you might be shocked at the poverty. You might be surpised at the speed, energy, and the egalitarianism; we are a young country, and we are a young country where, for better or for worse, working and money are highly valued. No one takes siestas over here. Sure, we may be surfing the webs in our cubes, but we’re at work, dammit. And there is history here, it’s not like the country was formed yesterday. Given the influence of American politics and the pervasiveness of American culture – neither of which I am either boasting about or defending – it seems a little facile to dismiss the history that shaped the attitudes that underlie our politics and culture. But of course if it doesn’t interest you, it doesn’t interest you and you should instead visit a country that does interest you.

And you might be surprised to find that we are not all fat, although just as easily you might be surprised to find that, yeah, a lot of us are pretty fat.

**Why do you insist on leaving out the ‘h’ in herb? And why do you pronounce the word caramel as CAR-mel?
[/QUOTE]

Because “herb” with an H makes you sound like a wanker. And some people do pronounce “caramel” as “CARE - a - mul,” “CAR-mel” is not the only pronunciation; it varies by region.

14

It’s hit and miss, even within a smaller area. Some public schools manage to be able to get through the curriculum and reach a lot of students, and some don’t. However, a lot of people just end up not retaining what they learned in school if they don’t use it. Our educational system isn’t abysmal by any means, but some of the more recent regulations have made it more difficult to get kids through the system and actually learn something. There are, however, the occasional outbursts of “evolution vs. [current flavor of creationism]” debates within some areas of the nation. It seems that, generally, evolution is not a well-understood concept among adults, especially those who do not like it.

Racism in my experience isn’t overt and isn’t just directed at minorities. I’ve gotten the equivalent “you don’t belong here” look from different groups, most notedly when I visually stick out in a group. It does, however, seem to be most problematic and overt from minorities who are relatively recent immigrants, and is mostly directed at anyone outside of their own smaller cultural group. (Personally, I think that it’s stupid that it happens, but that’s the most prevalent aspect of racism that I run into.)

This varies a lot from person to person, but one thing that’s fairly certain is that it’s generally not a “safe” thing to say that you’re an atheist or something not Judeo-Christian in some areas; people aren’t as open-minded about religion as others wish them to be. This isn’t, however, prevalent to the point where “everyone” thinks this way. It just happens to be a fact of life that there’s going to be an overtly religious person who has a problem with people outside of their religion that you’ll encounter in every area.

We don’t actually list religions on our forms anywhere except for military enlistment stuff, as far as I know.

Americans abide most of the major laws, but we tend to “fudge” the rules on smaller stuff like speeding, littering, jaywalking, etc. As stated above, cops generally don’t take bribes and have been known to press charges in regard to attempts at bribery. It’s just not something that 99% of cops do around here.

Since I’m the child of an immigrant on one side and the other side hasn’t been here for more than a century, I really can’t answer this too well. I find that a lot of very “American” foods that other people grew up with are a little unfamiliar to me. I am, however, familiar with the “steak and potatoes” variety of foods that are pretty common. People eat a lot of different things for different reasons in the US, and, depending on the region they grew up in, they may eat different things and call the same foods different names.

My family was definitely middle class growing up. We had multiple tvs, a microwave, and each parent had a car. We didn’t, however, take vacations much. I recall most of our vacations were a “once every 3-5 years” trip to Iceland. I think I spent more time traveling as part of school functions than I did with my family. This may, however, be pretty atypical. I honestly don’t know.

There’s a lot of natural features to go see, and we do have historic sites. Most of them are not more than 500 years old yet, though. I live in Florida, so here are some of the things I’d suggest you go see in my home state:

St Augustine, Florida-- the “old town” area is actually quite neat, and they still have the historic fort and some historic buildings.

Mission San Luis (Tallahassee, Florida)-- another Spanish mission settlement. This is currently an archaeological dig site for Florida State University, and they have recreated some of the buildings on site. If you like archaeology and Spanish missions, it’d be worth checking out.

Florida Everglades National Park (a good chunk of the central section of South Florida)-- known as “the river of grass,” this is a pretty interesting ecosystem. The outlying edges of the Everglades are slowly disappearing due to development in Florida, but there are still a lot of conservation areas where you can see native Florida wildlife and flora. Most tours I’ve been on mean sitting on an airboat (with earplugs in) and looking at all the neat stuff you pass by. I’ve also seen a few tours that also take you through a Miccosukee village and talk about their native culture and history.

Here’s a link to some other stuff that might interest you in Florida if you ever visit. We may not have a long history, but we do have some interesting historical sites.

I’m going to ignore that last question about pronunciation; English has enough different accents that it’d be silly to question one over another.

15

Is the standard of science (and other) education really that dismal?

It depends. Public education is not standardized across the country. Personally, I’m a product of the public education system in a relatively well-off suburb, so I received an good background in Biology, Chemistry and Physics.

How rife is racism? Would it be noticeable to an outsider, or is it kept underground? Would a black tourist, for example, leave the country feeling there is no racism or would they experience direct discrimination? Which are the most racist areas and which the least?

There are still a lot of racists in the country. I have the bad fortune to be related to some of them. I don’t think there’s any part of the country that can really be described as less or more racist. In my experience, it really comes down to individuals.

how religious is the average person? If you are an Atheist, can you comfortably bring it up in conversation or do you keep it to yourself?

Some parts of the country are more religious than others. It really depends on where you are, and what sort of company you’re in. If you’re among a bunch of urban professionals, saying you’re and atheist won’t get very much response.

Do people pray before they eat?

Some do, some don’t. My family did (in a perfunctory, agnostic sort of culturally-Lutheran way).

Do people go to church regularly?

In the area I live (Southeast Michigan), there are lots people who go to church, synagogue, mosque, or Jain temple regularly. There are also plenty who don’t. There are other parts of the country that are much less religiously diverse, where church has a higher status in a community.

Do you have pressure on you to conform to some faith?

Personally, I never have.

When you fill in a form do you write down a religion even if you don’t really have one?

I put down ‘Other’, because Agnostic/Pagan/Buddhist is never an option.

how law abiding is the average citizen? … Here in SA it would not work at all. Cops are bribed regularly, traffic laws like the speed limit are exceeded all the time, most people here seem to look at the law as a guideline only. This I presume would not be tolerated or allowed in the US. One of the reasons is you have a higher proportion of cops. But if no one is watching, how law abiding are you (general you)?

I have never heard of regular people bribing the cops. Most of the petty law-breaking I know of is stuff like smoking marijuana, speeding, and parking offences. Driving above the speed limit is the rule, rather than the exception, but you’re usually not at risk of getting a ticket unless you’re outpacing everyone around you. (Or you’re driving through a small town that makes its revenue from speed traps.)
what does the average person eat day to day? (To qualify – I’m not talking about first or second generation immigrants, I’m talking about pure red blooded Americans, born and raised. To further qualify – we have something called “boerekos” (boiled veg, roast potatoes, rice and lots of meat – cholesterol heaven) which is the standard fare of the Afrikaners and a lot of English South Africans. Black South Africans also have a regular type of food with maize and meat being the staples. Is there some type of “typical” American fare that people eat in their homes?

This will vary from region to region. For me, ‘regular’ food is stuff like bagels or cereal and orange juice for breakfast, some kind of lunchmeat sandwich plus fruit or potato chips for lunch, and something hot for dinner – which can vary from pasta and garlic bread to pork chops and green beans.

If you go away and you long for a home-cooked meal, what do you long for?

My gramma’s lasagna. My mom’s chicken stew with dumplings. A good, rare steak, with sautéed onions, a baked potato, salad, and all the French bread I can eat.

How “middle class” is middle class America? Does everyone have a TV, microwave, dishwasher and car – or are some of these things unaffordable for the average person. Do you go away on holiday every year? Twice a year? Three times? Can most people afford a decent restaurant meal every week? More or less often?

I think it varies, depending on where you live. A middle-class person living in a big city might not have a car. TVs and microwaves are very cheap, and I never knew anyone who didn’t have them for financial reasons. I’ve known a few folks who didn’t have a TV for philosophical reasons. Some folks might get two or more vacations a year – in my family one big vacation of about 2 weeks, and a few smaller “long weekend” type ones were more the rule.

If I come for a visit, what would I be surprised about? One of the reasons I haven’t come is there is nothing that specifically seems to appeal to me. I like history and therefore like Europe, the Middle East and Asia. But America is a young country and does not offer that much in the way of history. What would I be able to see that I absolutely, definitely should not miss and cannot see anywhere else? (I’m definitely not thinking of things like the biggest ball of twine or longest hot dog)

I think it’s important to remember that people have been here a lot longer than the United States has existed. There are the Ancestral Pueblo cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chelly. There are the Mississippian mounds.

However, In my opinion, the can’t-miss features of the U.S. are the natural wonders: Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Glacier, Yellowstone, the Everglades (just to name a few of the biggies).

why do you insist on leaving out the ‘h’ in herb? And why do you pronounce the word caramel as CAR-mel?

I talk the way I grew up hearing people talk. And so do you. :stuck_out_tongue:

16

As others have said, the answers depend on where you are. The US is very big, and though the differences between regions have shrunk in 30 years, they are still there. I’m from New York, but I’ve lived in central Illinois, Louisiana, New Jersey and now in the Bay Area of California, so I may give multiple answers.

There are exceptions, but the polls seem to show the answer is yes. My kids got a reasonable science education, but we both stressed the importance of this, we were in good school districts, and they both were in honors classes. A lot of kids don’t care if they don’t see the immediate benefit. Immigrants seem to care more than a lot of long time residents. (I’m not an immigrant.)

I can’t say there is none, but it is a lot better than it was when I was growing up. In almost all parts of the country racist comments are now a social no-no. On the other hand, I wouldn’t be the target of it. It also depends on the place. In Louisiana restaurants would be self-segregated. In New Jersey, this wasn’t true at all. I don’t think there was any active discrimination, but it was probably the result of custom. That was 25 years ago, so it might be better now.

Sthis strongly depends on where you are. Where I live now, not much, since there is a big diversity of people, and in our schools Christians are a minority. In the South people will say god bless you at the drop of a hat. When I visited North Carolina, the paper even had a column saying residents shouldn’t be quite so in-your-face about “god loves you” - though it was all done politely.

I’ve never seen grace being said in restaurants, this is a private thing. More people say they go to church than actually do, but still a lot do. Though we are officially secular, religion gets a pass here. But with the diversity of religions, few people bring it up in polite conversation. The percentage of atheists on the Dope do not reflect vocal atheists in the country in any way.

Pretty good for the big things. People violate laws like speed laws all the time, and all too often carpool lanes. In Portland there is an honor system for the light rail, just like in Germany, but most places have complex fare formulas, and don’t have that. Bribery is not standard, and will most likely get you arrested. Corruption is a lot more subtle, and shouldn’t be tried by amateurs. Most people pay their taxes without tons of enforcement also.

I understand where you are coming from. Breakfast in Germany and Austria was a lot different here. People eat bagels and croissants, lots of eggs, often meat, lots of cereal for breakfast. For lunch meat sandwiches are common, as are salads. For dinner, the increase in the number of ethnic restaurants has meant that you can’t really generalize. When I was a kid, I lived on the outskirts of New York City, and we had pizza, Italian, and Chinese food. Now everyone has that and more, and the recipe books we have show a lot of ethnic influences. My parents generation - now in their 80s - ate meat and potatoes, but that isn’t standard any more.

Yes to all of these, as well as DVD player and computer. As for restaurant meals, define decent. :slight_smile: A lot of people go out, or take in, or use prepared foods instead of cooking. As for vacation, Americans get a lot less than Europeans. I’d say a big vacation once a year is standard, but a lot of people stay connected to work during vacation.

The thing that struck most visitors I’ve met is the size of the US. History is relative. Here in California some really old, historic buildings are younger than the house my wife grew up in. The East has older things than the West. Princeton has Nassau Hall, which was there in 1776, and the College of William and Mary, in Williamsburg, has the oldest continuously used school building in the US - getting on to 300 years. Nothing like Oxford, of course, but old enough to count as history.

And we leave out the “u” in color also. We’re barbarians, what can I say?

17

Yeah, I say care-ah-mel. Probably because I live in the state with a city whose name is Carmel. I don’t want people to think I’m pouring a city on my ice cream sundae! :smiley:

18

Need to know:

Science education:
Not having a firm basis of comparison to the education standards of other countries, I can’t really say. Schools certainly try to cram as much information into student’s skulls as they can, but it tends to leak out quickly. It is true that English and history test scores tend to be higher than math and science scores, though. All I can say is that all the foreign exchange students we had in high school (Germany, France, Canada/Quebec, South Korea, Switzerland, etc.) and at my university seemed to be right on par with the U.S. students in math and science classes. This can also vary by school location (urban vs. suburban/rural)

Racism:
Varies by region and setting. Exists, but is dying and most people disapprove strongly.

Religion:
Unless you know the person you are speaking to quite well, it’s not something I’d bring up. Most people won’t really care all that much, but church density and the variance in religions represented by those churches/mosques/whatever is a good clue about religious feeling where you are. For example, where I am right now, the area was originally settled by Dutch Protestants. This influence has held, in that you can’t swing a stick around here without hitting someone with a Dutch last name or a protestant church. The amount of churches around here startled a visitor from a different part of the state, actually. On the other hand, on the opposite side of the state is a city with one of the highest concentration of Muslims in the USA.
To conclude, varies widely. Probably best to avoid this topic. That and politics.

Law abiding:
As stated above, most are very law abiding. Most law violations you’d see would be things like jaywalking, minor speeding, etc. Unlike in other countries, a police officer is very unlikely to respond well if you hand him/her a wad of bills to try to make a speeding ticket go away. Matter of fact, that might land you in jail. There are towns where no one locks their doors, and leaves their car unlocked, but you’d be best served to take the basic no-stealing precautions you would at home.

Want to know:
Food:
This varies by region and ethnicities present. In the southwest, you might find more Mexican-based food. In the Southeast, there might be more of an emphasis on things like barbeque, rice, etc. However, you’ll find a wide variety of food pretty much everywhere. Almost every town has someplace to get pizza, mexican, or chinese. As far is what is served in typical American diners: breakfast: eggs, bacon/sausage, orange juice, toast. lunch: sandwiches, hamburgers. Dinner: beef (steak, roast, ribs), chicken (baked, roasted, fried, grilled), potatoes (mashed, baked, french fries).

Middle class:
Pretty much everyone has a TV, car, microwave. Dishwashers tend to vary by amount of available space. Most people either have a computer or have access to one. This includes people that really shouldn’t be able to afford these things.

Surprises:
Sheer size and diversity. Things change dramatically from the east coast to the west, the north to the south, and the middle is different from all the rest.

Pronunciation:
Heck, ask five people in different parts of the country and you’ll get a different answer each time.

19

Number one – Is the standard of science…

The general education level is not as bad as people sometimes make out, but in my experience is a bit lower overall than in similarly wealthy countries. (Don’t expect most people you meet to know much more about South Africa than apartheid and Nelson Mandela.) Of course, according to polls and rankings, American universities are among the best in the world, and we seem to produce more than our share of scientific discoveries, so maybe it evens out.
**Number two **– how rife is racism?..

Racism is among the most taboo things in US society, so any discrimination you’d experience would most likely be subtle – depends on how tuned into it you’d be. Depends on your race, and the context you’re in. A black guy might notice a tension from passersby on a city street late at night. Conversely, a white guy might get some hard stares if he happened into a majority black neighborhood, or an Asian might hear some mocking “ching chong” noises behind his back, etc.

Having said all that, the vast majority of the time it’s not a very racist country, and I don’t think it would interfere very much with your trip. In fact, I’d say that the more I travel the more I realize how much less racist the US is compared to much of the rest of the world. Certainly less racist than most of Europe and what I’ve seen of East Asia – I don’t know how it compares to things in South Africa.

Number three – how religious…

Depends on how you bring up your atheism. Most Americans are culturally Christian (if not necessarily “religiously” Christian), and can be very sensitive if they think someone is challenging or making fun of their faith. If the subject of your atheism comes up naturally, you might have some people encouraging you to give Christianity a chance, but for the most part it won’t be a big deal. People generally don’t pray before meals in public, and the only people who have pressured me into being religious have been my own family.

Number four – how law abiding …

Very law abiding (aside from speeding). I can’t imagine even trying to bribe a cop.
And the things I was just wondering:

Number one - what does the average person eat …

A lot of the “ethnic” foods that Americans eat are heavily adapted to the American palate. I’m living overseas now, and I’m craving American-style Chinese, Mexican and Italian foods, along with “diner fare” – pot roast, cheese-steaks, burgers, casseroles, etc.

Number two – How “middle class”…

Almost every middle class person has all those things, as do a lot of people we’d qualify as being poor (minus, perhaps the vacations). Very few are the Americans who can’t afford a TV – when I was in middle school, we raised money for a local poor family, and when we went to present our gifts to them, they were at home not only watching TV, but cable TV!

**Number three **– If I come for a visit…

If you’re only interested in ancient history, you can probably skip coming. We do have some very old stuff (Native American structures, Spanish forts, etc.), but it’s probably too few and far between to be worth it for you. If history from the 18th century on is interesting to you, you’ll have more to choose from. Boston and Charleston for example are beautiful, interesting, historic cities, and there are a lot of other options along the East Coast (things get newer the further West you go). These places will naturally mean more to you the more you know or care about American history, but some of them deserve a visit to anyone interested in general world history: the American Revolution, for example, was important enough to world history that it might interest you to go to Philadelphia to see the place where it all began.

Beyond that, I would think that someone interested in history would in general be interested in the way that people in different cultures in different places live. On that level, there are tons of reasons to come: visit a New England fishing town, go to Miami and mingle with Cuban dissidents, tour crumbling plantations in the Deep South, go to a Texas rodeo, visit a tiny village in northern Alaska or experience the aloha spirit in Hawaii, find out just how shallow people in Los Angeles really are, visit Motown in Detroit, see the political junkies running around DC pulling the strings of the world, take a ride along Route 66, check out the Amish in rural Pennsylvania. The possibilities are endless.

**Number four **– why do you insist on leaving out the ‘h’ in herb? And why do you pronounce the word caramel as CAR-mel?
[/QUOTE]
Beats me.

20

Tough to say. There IS an intolerance of imperfection which I’m sure has some long historic roots. There is also an intolerance of tyranny which is essentially why we’re here. So we don’t like to be told what to do, and we don’t like to be wrong. If it looks like we’re about to be wrong, we’ll focus on not being told what to do. This sometimes gets in the way of quality education, and it sometimes inspires novel invention. It allows us to maintain a respectable level of ignorance. Without the ignorance, we’d be a bunch of hard-working know-it-alls whom the rest of the world would want to beat up. Just like in any school. We crank out our share of super-duper scientists and technological achievements though, so maybe it’s not so bad.

I don’t know when someone’s being a racist toward me or when they’re just being an asshole for some other reason. My take on it is that there are assholes everywhere who will find some reason to disrespect you, race just being one of many things to cling to. I wouldn’t say it’s more rampant or severe here than anywhere else in the world. I mean, it’s been nearly a century since we last practiced genocide so on that score we’re a good fifty years ahead of the rest of the world.

You never know, usually. We’re not into mass persecutions based on religion (ok, unless those religions are into breaking federal laws as a matter of worship) so it’s pretty much a non-issue. Pray if YOU want, how YOU want and if you leave everyone else alone in the process it’s no big deal.

We are a nation of laws, current international developments notwithstanding. At the citizen level we continue to be more outraged than sympathetic to lawbreakers. I sometimes drive too fast, but apart from that I don’t worry about the law catching up with me.

And the things I was just wondering:

For me? Pizza. I like my carbs. Also any of a number of Americanized versions of international dishes. Which I guess is all there really is to eat around here if you don’t count bison, venison and potatoes. Come to think of it, there really isn’t any sort of widely recognized Native American food. Wonder why that is? Oh … um … nevermind.

I think nearly every one of us finds the money for a car. A dependable car can be had for about one or two month’s wages of any full-time job. TVs…the poorest people I’ve ever known have always had a TV, and they are some pretty damned poor people. They also had cars.

The unadulterated space. It’s precisely because this is a relatively young country that there are unimaginably huge chunks of wilderness. We haven’t been building castles and bridges and roads here for thousands of years, and the stone-age custodians who were here before the Euros showed up tended to blend in with the environment as opposed to conquer it.

Herb is a dude’s name. We DO say Car-a-mel, but that 2nd “a” is spoken so efficiently that it only sounds like a two syllable word.