Questions on Medal of Honor customs and laws

If they are, then the fact that an AFI dated 10 January 2013 ignores one that is dated 7 August 2012 should drive them up a wall. It bothers me, and I’m not even in the Air Force.

One answer i could give to that is easy “It’s the reg now, so it is the reg now”

A more descriptive answer would be, whomever was editing the latest publication screwed up, because each and every AF level publication goes through massive amounts of editing and checks, down to every Major Command (like Air Combat Command and Air Mobility Command, etc) and i can’t believe nobody caught that.

As someone who has served on the Air Staff editing AF level publications, I know that is a MAJOR oversight by the people whose job it is to know that stuff.

Regardless, the newest publication is wrong because there is an older publication that states what the saluting rules are. And anyway, the discussion was “There is no military regulation that says that MoH recipients should be saluted” but I have given a link to show that there IS a regulation that says that.

I’m pretty sure the older publication is wrong because a newer publication contradicts it. New canon trumps old canon when it comes to lawful orders. Though yeah, AFI 1-1 is kind of weird.

Going back to the Stars and Stripes discussion, the quoted bit specified that there was no law or regulation mandating all personnel to salute a MoH recipient, which is still true even with AFI 1-1 since as mentioned above (and repeatedly), AFIs only apply to Air Force personnel (or personnel under Air Force authority, I guess).

an older publication can’t be “wrong”, just superseded. However, the new publication says there is no regulation that says it, but that is obviously wrong because there is.

And as I said above, somebody said there is NO regulation that says MoH recipients must be saluted, but there is.

Or, rather, there was, last year, for about 5 months. Why say the new regulation is wrong? Maybe it was the AFI 1-1 that actually made the mistake. (Which I believe is exactly what happened)

Well, if you want to get all technical instead of just saying yes, there is a regulation that says it, an AFPAM does NOT supersede an AFI, so the AFI is still the regulatory guidance.

For the sake of clarity, lets get some nomenclature straight: In the military, or at least, in the Air Force, “Publication” is something that has a specific meaning. A newspaper is not a Publication in the Air Force, even though it is in the Real World™. It’s simply a newspaper. An Air Force Instruction (a document issued by the Secretary of the Air Force as a lawful order) is a Publication. A Technical Order (basically a manual for accomplishing some set of tasks, such as replacing the Rangefinding Widget in a radar set) is a Publication. The Operator’s Manual that came with a piece of commercial equipment (such as the booklet that came with the VCR in the breakroom which was promptly thrown out with the box and Styrofoam blocks) is also a Publication, though it’s mainly only used if one of the actual military publications doesn’t provide instruction on the matter.

The Stars and Stripes doesn’t get any say in how we do things in the military (in fact, as covered above, the whole point of it is that it operates independently of the chain of command), so it’s not a Publication for the purposes of this discussion.

EDIT: Not saying you got it mixed up, but I’m sure someone around here might have.

EDIT the second: I’m still not sure exactly what AFPAMs are for. As far as I can tell, they’re officially worded suggestions because nobody seems to care if we cite an AFPAM explaining the correct way to do something because they want an AFI saying the same thing before they believe us.

You are right, i should have said “An older instruction”. I just didn’t know some people would be all nit-picky about a straight-forward answer.

Also, an AFPAM is just there to give instruction on how to implement an AFI that just give general guidance. However, all of them should be taken with a grain of salt due to writing new ones for promotions, better assignments, and what not.

AFPAMs are useful to use if you need guidance, but if you or your workcenter know a better way, than use it, as long as it conforms to the AFI.

Join date:2004
Sit up, young man! Pay attention! :smiley:

I didn’t expect it in GQ :wink:

mrAru said that in boot he was told that you saluted them, but it wasn’t reg, just recognizing their service above and beyond. [enlistment was 1983/Jan class for Great Mistakes]

My dad always joked they preferred to give the medal to people posthumously so they didn’t have to worry about saluting them, or behavior problems … [he enlisted in 1939, not sure which month]

When I saw “Twelve O’Clock High” General Gregory Peck was meeting a pilot who had been nominated for a MoH, and he said, “I guess I’m going to have to get used to saluting YOU.”

No One expects it!

I brought up the Stars and Stripes article only by way of showing that yes, it’s a longstanding *practice *(whether by regulation or tradition), and to try to illuminate where it began.

Twelve O’Clock High came out in 1950, with the screenplay written by a WW2 squadron officer, Beirne Lay. Unless he made it up, then the practice was established at least as early as WW2.

Yes I stated above it is a long tradition. I didn’t bring Stetsons and Spurs up out of the blue. There are things in the Army that are dictated by tradition not regulation. The cavalry can wear their goofy hats because of tradition. You will not find a Stetson in AR670-1. Saluting MOH awardees is a tradition that goes back to at least WWII. It is not something made up recently. Or by Hollywood.

DoD Manual 1348.33, Manual of Military Decorations and Awards
Vol 1, General Information, Medal of Honor, and Defense/Joint Decorations and Awards (with Ch-2, 7 Mar 13)

(3) Courtesies and Privileges Accorded MOH Recipients

(a) Each recipient receives a monthly pension from the Department of Veterans
Affairs (VA).

(b) Enlisted recipients who retire from Military Service may be eligible to receive a
10 percent increase in retired pay in accordance with sections 3991, 8991, and 1402a of
Reference (k).

© Recipients are issued a special MOH Travel and Identification Card signed by the
Secretary of the Military Department concerned that entitles recipients who are not on active
duty or a military retiree to use space available military air transportation.

(d) Unlike military personnel and retirees, MOH recipients may wear their uniforms
at any time or place they choose, except for:

  1. In connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests, or
    when engaged in off-duty civilian employment.

  2. When participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches,
    rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.

  3. When attending any meeting or event that is a function of, or is sponsored by,
    an extremist organization.

  4. When wearing the uniform would bring discredit upon the Department of
    Defense or the individuals respective Military Department.

  5. When specifically prohibited by Department of Defense or Military
    Department instructions or directives.

(e) Recipients who are not on active duty or a military retiree are issued a DoD
Identification Card, as are their family members. It authorizes them military commissary, post
exchange, and theater privileges. All of the Military Departments, consistent with DoD policy,
authorize use of morale, welfare, and recreation activities, including honorary club membership without dues.

(f) Children of MOH recipients are not subject to quotas if they are qualified and
desire to attend one of the U.S. Service academies.

(g) MOH recipients receive invitations to attend Presidential inaugurations and
accompanying festivities. Recipients on active duty and those who are U.S. Government civilian
employees have traditionally been authorized administrative absence instead of chargeable leave
to attend these events.

(h) The VA provides a special engraved headstone for deceased recipients of the
MOH.

(i) MOH recipients should be accorded on-base billeting commensurate with the
prestige associated with the MOH


Nothing in there about being entitled to salutes.

Its going a bit far to make the regulation.

Its a greater honour for a superior to salute you even when there is no regulation that says he must.

It may be in the regs, or not… but trust me. Bust a courtesy or custom and the wire-brushing you’ll get would make you wish they’d just court-martial you and get it over with.

The chains of custom are heavier than the entire collected regulations of all the services (since those are all e-published in weightless PDFs nowadays :slight_smile: )

Hollywood started a tad earlier than 1950.

As it is, saluting–along with all the other stuff mentioned (Stetson, spurs, etc.)–is kind of silly, especially when it’s required.

Wire-brushing? I think you might wish to check the calendar a tad more often than once a century.