Questions Regarding African-American and Stereotypes

Factual Questions
41

Okay, I’ll probably get roasted for this, but that’s never stopped me speaking my mind.

There is a song that fits my attitude about people, any people, that whine about how their ancestors were treated in the past. It’s on the Eagle’s Hell Freezes Over and it’s called, Get Over It.

Let me point out one thing to all the whiny people out there that bitch about being ‘oppressed’ by whoever today. We did not do it!! The white man of today did not oppress the black man of today. The male of today was not the one that denied women the vote until the early 20th century. The Englishman is not the same that inhabited India for all that time. Whatever happened in the past to your race, your sex, your species, get over it.

I am a woman and I am sick to death of hearing how someone can’t succeed because they are being held back. No one is being held back by anyone. If you truly want something, you will find a way, come hell or high water, to get it.

Also, I do believe that races and sexes and religions do alienate themselves from others. I remember in my high school, which was predominately white, the black kids were mostly just two tables in the cafeteria and hardly any talked to anyone who was not black. It didn’t matter if one black person lived in the area I lived in and the other was brought in by busing, they still would just talk to their color.

Now I am not a racist. But I don’t believe in giving handouts just because of what happened to your ancestors in the past. I believe in rewarding people based on their merit and their skills and everything that basically makes them good people. I’m completely against affirmative action because I do not want to eventually be a biologist and be given a chance simply because someone has to make a quota.

One last thing…being into science as I am…I know we are all made of the same things. DNA, cells, mitochondria, a brain, organs…if you turned us inside out no one would look any different. So what’s everyone making such a big deal over what is essentially just pigment in skin cells?

When are you going to realize being normal isn’t necessarily a good thing?

42

Max: I agree with Tom that I don’t find those names stupid. Unfamiliar, but why does that imply a lack of intelligence?

Mjollnir: I can’t find the specific thread, and my memory stands corrected.

43

TaleraRis, I’m not sure what your point was. The OP asked about different fashions of naming and the history behind the general locations/residences of black populations. You post claiming (falsely) that all the “problems” are merely “past history” and “they” should “get over it.”

I have no doubt that you have seen blacks seek to associate with other blacks rather than joining the white multitudes. I have mixed feelings about that issue, since I know that a failure to mix will lead to further separation but a desire to mix is generally met with an (unspoken, usually) command to blend in (i.e., “act white”). I don’t think that there is an easy answer to that issue.

I’m afraid that this statement, however

is much too sweeping to be accurate. There are, indeed, black people who have only recently reached middle age who were denied a decent education in this country because of their color. There continue to be many opportunities for housing and employment that are denied people because of their color. If you think that the passage of a few easily circumvented laws in the last 30 years has rectified all the legal injustices, you are sadly mistaken.

Excellent question! Try asking it of the employers and landlords who continue to deny people opportunites for work and housing because those people have dark skin.

Tom~

44

Because, while it is not an excellent marker for genetic similarity, it is a very recognizable one. Since evolution rewards those genes (and social custums) that cause their hosts to help other hosts with similar genes (and social customs), genes (and social customs) that “look out” for genetic (and social) similarities have a tendancy to become prominant.

45

RobRoy

“Elvis” has its origins in Norse. If you trace its evolution back far enough, it means “all-wise.”

46

WHAT racism against whites? I don’t see it.

You’re upset because there are Black Hair Care Products? That’s “racism” and not “advertising”? Oooooh, what special treatment these people get - being targeted as an identifiable consumer group.

The point is, my dear pinhead, if you’re the dominant culture, the majority of products are already aimed at you - the White is implicit - why do you need to state it?

Are you saying marketing hair care products “for Blacks” is the same as specifying a water fountain as “for Whites Only”? Don’t be absurd.

So yes, I think it’s the height of petulance to complain because something in the universe does not revolve around you - and the height of ignorance to attempt to justify your own prejudices by pointing a finger and crying, “well - he does it, too!”

47

Talera, what you’ve said makes good sense in an ideal world. Unfortunately, this world isn’t. I count it among my blessings in life to have had the experience of living in Mississippi, and to have gained an understanding of Black culture. The complexities of the race issue in this country cannot be leveled off in a generation. Though the playing field is declared by law as equal, the experience of those on it is not.

Have you ever been looked at as one of “Them”? It’s an uneasy feeling. Young Black guys I know constantly feel “watched”, whenever they go into a store or club. I’ve seen it happen… the store owner follows their every move, expecting them to be criminals. And, from what the guys have told me, it’s heartbreaking. If that distrust permeates your life, it wears pretty heavily.

As a woman, I can say that the constant unvocallized judgement of society wears one down in that regard, too. If you don’t feel it, thank God, progress is being made. But a lot of gals suffered through a buncha BS for you to get there.

I’m glad you start out in life with a level playing field. But please read your history books to hear the voices of those who didn’t have such a pleasant experience.

No roasting here, cause your last sentence is the bottom line.

48

A useful exercise FOR ANYONE is to spend some time where you are the “outsider”. THis has already been accomplished by most African Americans, etc. For a European American it is an eye opening experience.

49

Living in Hawaii for a while–lily white skin makes you an outsider there.

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

50

Asians were “allowed” to live in ghettoes, but were generally free to live their lives as long as they “kept their place.”

The discrimination that Asians faced did not include forcing them to abandon their culture. **
[/QUOTE]

I think Asians have it pretty good here in America (well compared to other minority groups). Our cultures are condusive to conformity; they’re non threatening because we just don’t want to make waves (you ever hear the Japanese saying: “the nail that sticks up the farthest gets hammered down first”?). I never get pulled out of my car and have to sit in the back of a squad while a routine traffic stop happens…I’ve never felt that my race has been an issue when it comes to my job. I’m not saying we haven’t had our share of problems (beatings, lynchings, forced encampment of the nesi, etc.) but I think if a White/Asian couple can date in most metropolitan areas here in America, without anyone batting an eyelash - I think we got it pretty good. We’ve successfully blended in…and our culture that preaches “conformity” has helped.

51

Good points - also Americans have increasingly embraced been embraced as model minorities. In some ways that is a self fulfilling prophecy. Asian youth in Japan are increasingly turning away from traditional values. In that culture they will be targeted as “youth” and not by their skin color.

52

Sorry tomndeb, it was mostly just a comment on what the thread seemed to be turning about racism and past treatment and such. I am in no way saying that the efforts of those in the past and what they went through is not important. I’m just very tired of many colored people looking at me and hating just because of something that my ancestor may have done to theirs. I know it’s not this way everywhere, but it was like that a lot in Indiana. I do have black, white, Asian, whatever friends and I’m great friends with them. And yes, el, that is how it should be in a an ideal world. But that ideal world is never going to come about unless people actively try to change things. I don’t disbelieve that people are still discriminated against and I think it’s very wrong. It just annoys me when people stop focusing on what’s going on and instead drag it all back to what happened in the past. The world is never going to change unless everyone can stop seeing their ancestors in each other and just start seeing the nice, kind person that’s there. Sorry if anyone thought any different.

When are you going to realize being normal isn’t necessarily a good thing?

53

Oh, and to get back to the topic. I do believe that some black people and Asians and people of all color give some rather…unusual…names. I doubt I would never name my child something like that, but they also probably wouldn’t name their son Simon :slight_smile: And something that I think is funny…my name, Candace, was the name of ancient Ethiopian queens. But I’m white.
Just something I’ve chuckled about since I read it. :smiley:

When are you going to realize being normal isn’t necessarily a good thing?

54

THis is great thread. I knew it would turn into this, and I’m really glad it has. Racism is wrong, obviously, and it needs to be ended, agreed? Pretty simple, huh? Well, it’s in the way that we combat rascicm that gets complicated.
I have a few points to make, but most likely I will get lost in rambling, so I’ll try to do a good job. Ahem.

or something like that. Quite right, but it is part of the problem too. The idea is great that America is this great melting pot but the problem is that when you stir in other colors, it’s still white. There is no problem with the existence of black television channels, black hair care products, black advocacy organizations. People need to realize that these things are not a big deal and do good things. When one focuses on the things that are labeled black one will often miss that the rest is white. I guess I just restated what aseymayo originally said in a lot more words, sorry :smiley:

Further, what’s the deal with even giving a fuck what someone’s name is? Do I really care if your name is Adam, Joe, Sally, Jennifer, Lowanda, Shanaynay, Tupac, Willis or even Qixilgroobenferz? What difference does it make? If some black people want to name their kid after a Nubian goddess, and some mexicans want to name their kid after and Aztec prince, who gives a rats ass? Does it really make any difference as to the value of that person’s character? Of course not, don’t be ridiculous.
The fact that some people (this is based on my own limited experience-usulally white) complain that [Insert ethnic group of choice] are taking over this country! They’re taking our jobs! They’re taking our neighborhoods! They’re marrying our sons and daughters! What a bunch of bullshit. I am half Irish and the other half mexican. I’ve only been to mexico twice, and I can’t even speak spanish. I was born in POhoenix and I have a good job. I live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with lots and lots of white, chinese, black, Americans. My girlfriend is white as the day is long. I have never run into racism, and I am glad of it. This mini-autobiography is only to point out a couple things. One, that just because you don’t see something, doesn’t mean it aint there. And two, no one is taking over my job.

One of the head honchos where I work is black. One of the janitors is white, there is another janitor who is mexican, and another head honcho who is white. All of us worker bees are as diverse as an episode of the grind on Mtv.

I get so sick and tired of everyone nit-picking the little shit that they miss the forest for the trees. A friend of mine got fired once. Not because she was a woman. Not because she was black. Not for any reason other than she was constantly late. It would have been very easy for her to cop out with “I got fired because I was black/a woman/or my boss didn’t like me.” But she didn’t. The problem is that so many people who get fired for legitmate reasons bitch that it was not their fault that people who do get discriminated against are not listened to because they like

I hate hearing stuff like that. No one in this thread said that, it was my ex’s dad. What a dick.

But can you really blame him? What else is he supposed to think? Ignorance is no excuse, but really, if everytime the old boy heard of a mexican guy getting fired he cried racism what conclusions is he going to draw?
All of this racism stuff is so much bullshit. We really need to put our differences aside. There is no excuse for the outright hatedof any race. I have heard it all. It’s all bullshit.

Luke Skywalker (the character in Star Wars, not the rapper) said it best(sic):
I can feel the good within you, let go of your hate!

“And on the eighth day, God Created beer
to prevent the Irish from taking over
the Earth.”
~SNOOGANS~

55

Hey! What are you implying, SmickD?

56

SmickD:

Whoah, chill dude. Rastahomie asked a simple question. It wasn’t an accusation that anyone naming their kids anything other than traditional Anglo-saxon names is a moron, just a question why they choose names that sound so funny (from a certain cultural viewpoint - i.e. odd, not standard, different, exotic, pick a non-prejudicial descriptive term here). I had the same question, I just hadn’t gotten around to asking it here. Oh, and in case you’re wondering, I’ve heard a Black comedian do a routine on this very issue. Don’t remember his name, but the joke is something about why Black kids all have names that sound like medicine. Ibuprofen, Tylenol, Dexatrim,… So it’s not just prejudiced white bigots who are wondering, even Black people want to know.

Rasthomie’s right - why does any discussion of racial issues become a chance to accuse all white people of being prejudiced? If I have a genuine question of cultural/social issues, why can’t I ask in a neutral tone and not be hammered for the “sins of my forefathers”? Rastahomie’s question was very neutral and non-judgmental, simply a question of curiosity looking for an informative answer. Can you give a non-judgmental response?

57

Actually common male first names in PR and the Phillipines include, Milton, Nelson, Wilson, etc. Apparently the -son and -ton endings sound rather stylishly anglo.

Part of the “exotic” moniker in our culture is that it usually refers to cultures of color. These same cultures do borrow from ours in a way that is “exotic”, ie foreign, unknown, etc.

But we never look at a Puerto Rican with the name Nelson (also some of us don’t personally know any Puerto Ricans but that is another story…) and ask “where the hell did he get that?” Of course not; it is easy to pronounce and familiar to us, yet just as meaningless in that culture as “Khadija” is to us.

The above mentioned “Candace” is not exotic anymore due to repeated exposure, and the entrance of that name into English via Latin and the frequent use in English lit.

Exposure is the factor here. As I have an interest in linguistics, my ears are always out for names and their meaning. I will always ask for a name not a number as I can always remember the name, it’s spelling and usually some shade of meaning, if it is an Indo-European root. Few are “exotic” in the sense of meaningless or never previously heard, I delight in finding them.

The names mentioned in the post are rare, and the object of much speculation and derision amoung whites. The as-common white trash names are not pondered as extensively, nor the meaningless new group of retro Americana names amoung yuppies.

I can’t speak for the OP, but I have to admit the continual pointing out of these “weird names” as if they are a really a genuinely “Black thing” is about people whose exposure to real African Americans (ie a cross section, including middle and upper class) is limited. My request for Rasthomie to ask his African American friends was not an ad hominem atttack, but did strike pay dirt - he seems not to have a suffiecient pool to draw from to ask the question.

If I had done the same, over the years I would have asked the following people why Blacks had such weird names:
Earl,
William,
Ray,
Donna,
Joey,
Herb,
Tonia,
Steve,
Peter,
etc. (their real names).

Hopefully I wouldn’t have insulted them. I would have though, cause they would know as well as I that the question is a little twisted - as twisted as asking me about white trash names. How would I know, I’m not white trash. I have as little connections to the Tiffany’s and BillyJoes of the world as they have to the Shaniqua’s and DeShawns.

Asking this question, quote - “Why is it that many African-Americans tend to give their children exotic names such as DaShonte or Shaniqua?” and not qualifying it to lower income people and painting the broad brush of “African American” does seem…uninformed.

A more interesting question is why exotic African American names in certain classes begin with “De”, “D’”, or “De”, produces a real linguistic answer - it is from the French.

Asking why current yuppie names are Cody, Kaylin and such, produces a real linguistic answer - the evoke a white America of the past.
Names such as Cassandra, (Greek)

58

(cut off mid stream)
Names such as Cassandra, Zoe, even Laura, Linda and such were considered exotic in English from their Greek and Latin origins. Now they are common and not considered exotic although most people have no idea what they “mean”.

59

ROB ROY
“Elvis” is a misspelling of “Elvas” which is a region of Portugal.I recall, in the remote Tenn. hills where some of his ancestors were from, existed an isolated mixed race group that claimed a significant Portuguese ethnic component.Somewhere in E. Tenn. still stands the chapel of Elvas

60

Behind the name: African names