Well, if believing in God is irrational and a believer behaves in an altruistic way because of a supposed reward from that God, I’d argue that that irrationality is actually very good.
Jeez, man, you’re stealing my stuff again:
Strangely, I’m eating some Ritter Sport right now. It’s effing tasy.
And what is your evidence that logic works in this case?
I don’t think “there’s no evidence for God” is particularly meaningful. The point of faith is that there is belief without evidence. I agree there is no evidence for God, but I still believe in God. “I don’t believe in God” would be more important. But even that is not critical. If a person has done good things, then the details of their religious beliefs are not important. (And to preempt a question: I don’t know how many good things are required to get into heaven, that’s for God’s judgement.)
As for the genocidal maniac who sincerely repents on their deathbed, I don’t know whether or not they’d get into heaven. Again, that’s for God to judge.
Yes, do good works and do whatever you like on Sunday. I would say Jesus would be happy about you. (I sincerely mean this!)
Yes, irrationality can be bad. (And surely you will agree that rationality can be bad sometimes, too.) That does not mean it always is. As for mine own irrationality, judge me by my works.
Mmmmm. Me. [/Homer]
I’m sorry, but that sounds a bit like a copout.
Aren’t these verses perfectly clear?
Luke 5:32
Jesus “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 15:7
Jesus “I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.”
(and for the atheist not getting in, see the requirement for eternal life as in Luke 10:27 “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself”)
And again, I say why bother with the religion? If the acts are all that matter why bother with church and worship and prayer and everything else?
Are your works because of your irrationality, or in spite of it? If you can do good works without irrationality, why bother with it at all?
Those are good reasons to repent. But Matthew 7:1-5 makes it clear that one should not judge others.
Exactly, and there’s no requirements about specific beliefs.
Because of cultural or social reasons? I don’t think they’re necessary, so don’t expect me to justify them.
Probably some of both. In the economic sense of rational, the time and money I give to charity wouldn’t pass a cost-benefit analysis.
And I’m not sure that it’s even possible for me to simply switch off some of my beliefs. My beliefs aren’t something I suddenly decided to have. They developed over my life and are integrated into who I am.
Like I noted in 81—if you assert that belief in God is irrational yet someone performs good works (not Pleonast, say, but an anonymous Christian) because of the belief that God wants them to/they will be rewarded with salvation, then that’s good works because of irrationality. That’s a net gain and the so-called irrationality hurts no one.
Spirit Prison = pre-judgement purgatory. It’s where you sit around brooding over your sins and eventual fate, and possibly trying to get in a little last-minute cribbing before the final judgement. When a mormon refers to Hell they are referring to the same place.
(The post-judgement punishment/incarceration locale is one of the two non-optimal heavenly kingdoms or, if you’re quite naughty, “Outer Darkness”. Incidentally.)
God may allow death, but He is not the god of death. “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living”–Matthew 22:32
Why does everyone blame God for killing people? If you’re going to acknowledge Him then you you should at least get the facts straight. Death takes lives. Death is a product of sin. God is without sin.
If you look at it another way… maybe God allows some babies to die so they don’t grow up and become another Hitler. You know… like the “one life instead of a thousand” deal.
I’m sure you won’t consider that a damn good reason… but you will probably come up with a damn good reason not to.
… seriously? I mean… is this post for serious!?
First, you don’t even seem to believe in God… yet you expect Him to miraculously prevent horrible things from happening?
Secondly… since it seems you don’t believe in God, why not blame something or someone more realistic… like… the people who knew about the 9/11 attacks before they happened? There was at least one opportunity for the USA to stop the attacks…
Logic IS evidence. Evidence is logic. If you can’t draw necessary inferences from starting premises then the premises are worthless. If you want to try to wave away logical inferences from the claims you make ABOUT God, them the claims have no value.
It’s extremely meaningful. It means there’s no evidence.
Yes, we know the definition. Defining it does not explain how it has any point. Why is it a virtue to believe something for no reason? I won’t say it necessarily has to be a harmful thing, but I don’t see why it has any moral, intellectual or philosphical value. To quote Mark Twain, “faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”
Your position doesn’t make sense to me. In one moment you say that no human has any authority to say who is and/or who isn’t going to Heave/Hell. That that decision is God’s alone…
But then you say you know that you are going to Heaven and that you also know people who, without a doubt, know they are going to heaven. How does that work exactly? Because then you say that God could banish you to Hell…but that you know He won’t.
You don’t make any sense at all…your only test against your “logic” is that you, personally, do not have any doubt that you will be spending eternity in Heaven with God and His people. Doesn’t seem to be the acid test really…just seems a twist and a turn and you get you where you want to be.
Yeah…having been raised Universalist, I don’t believe that any humans go to hell. Hell and eternal damnation are only Satan’s punishment; those who cannot accept God, even upon seeing him at judgement day, will merely cease to exist, rather than be tormented for all time. I don’t think there will be too many people that have even the latter happen to them, though I’m uncertain if there are deeds (i.e. breaking the commandments) that will bar people from heaven beyond the issue of faith, but non-believers are just as likely to live their lives without heinous acts even if their motivation for moral behavior is different, so their lack of faith wouldn’t complicate that.