The question shouldn’t spoil anything for new readers, although the answer(s) might…
I’ve read all four novels, but I can’t remember … have we found out who Jon Snow’s mother is/was?
Thanks,
thwartme
Nope. And, to tell the truth, some folks’ theory is that we don’t know who Jon’s father is, either…though the folks over at westeros.com will be happy to tell you who they think he is. Repeatedly. In multiple threads.
Thanks. I’ve had that thought before, as well. But there are a few places where people say “I can see you father in you” or words to that effect. Maybe he’s Brandon’s (Eddard’s brother) boy?
Well, we’ve only got a year until the next book. Maybe. Or longer. Possibly.
thwartme
Speculation, so no spoiler boxes because NONE of this is official or “from the mouth of Martin”:
The theory is that Jon Snow is actually the child of Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark. This all comes out from Ned’s recollection of his promise to Lyanna on her death/birthbed at the Tower of Joy, and Danys’s vision in the Warlocks’ fortress of Rhaegar talking about his son who IS the Song of Ice and Fire. We know that Rhaegar had sex with Lyanna, but the only viewpoint of their relationship that we see is Robert’s, who is obviously biased (being Lyanna’s betrothed), and Ned’s, who was, after all, Robert’s friend and predisposed to consider the Targaryens enemies, after what happened to Brandon and Rickard (Ned’s brother and father) at Aerys’s hand. So it could very well have been a voluntary “kidnapping” on Lyanna’s part.
The other possibility is that Ned was actually his father, and his mother was either Ashara Dayne (a noblewoman of Dorne) or a commoner named Wylla. There is conflicting evidence (and absence thereof) for both of those.
Actually, the most popular - and best supported, IMHO - theory is that he’s the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, who died in childbirth.
Additionally, if you read book 1 carefully (which I have), you’ll see that in Ned’s chapters, he never actually thinks of Jon as his son.
Coupled with the evidence indicating that Rhaegar was actually a decent human being, and not the ogre Robert saw him as, and with Lyanna’s aprehensions about marrying Robert… well, you have a pretty good theory.
“You know nothing, Alessan!”
In my defense, I actually came up wth the theory by myself (after reading book 1 and 2 my second time, in 2000 or so), years before reading of it online.
True, but it’s still speculation. I like the idea myself.
One of the great things about ASoIaF is that Martin doesn’t have any cardboard characters, even characters that only appear in memories. I can’t think of a single thorough-going villain aside from Aerys II. Even Cersei has human moments where you actually feel kind of sorry for her. Then, of course, she opens her mouth and you hope the High Septon keeps her imprisoned forever…or at least until she’s executed.
Even people who start out good get tarnished eventually. Lysa Arryn worst of all, IMO. Of course, in her case we started out with a false image, provided by Catelyn who had no idea the depths her sister had fallen to in Littlefinger’s hands.
Rhaegar begins as a fairly undifferentiated extension of his insane father. Only in dribs and drabs do we begin to see the real Rhaegar and realize just what the ostensible heroes of the Rebellion actually were responsible for. And then when Barristan Selmy tells Dany of Rhaegar’s real person, you realize that these indescribably evil and insane Targaryens really weren’t, in general. The problem is that the Targaryen that we see most besides Dany for the first three books is Viserys, who IS as insane as his father.
Now if you want to be a truly hardcore fan, you can start exploring the theory that
the “three heads of the dragon” refer to the three surviving descendants of the Targaryen family, and that all three will end up banding together for the final battle against the Others. Those three descendants would be Daenerys, Jon (the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna, and Tyrion (supposedly a bastard son of Aerys and Lady Lannister.)
It’s just a theory, of course.
Ohh…I thnk that Ser Gregor counts.
-Joe
Oh, yeah. Forgot about him! Yes, he definitely counts as an out-and-out villain. And I suppose Hoat and the Bloody Mummers, as well. But they’re minor characters.
Let me rephrase…there are no cardboard MAJOR characters except Gregor Clegane and Aerys II. There are cardboard minor characters, though.
Even with Mad King Aerys had his behaviour explained, if not excused. He was deeply tramatized by his experience as a hostage during the Defience of Duskendale, before a young Barristan rescued him. Apparently, that combined with his genetic predisposition pushed him o’er the edge.
Interesting, but I don’t buy it. First of all, too much stress is put on the point that Tyrion is in fact very similar to his father - a plot point like the one noted above would undermine the books’ theme of character traits being inheritable.
Second of all, it assumes that the books’ main conflict only has two sides. Remember, it wasn’t dragons and fire gods who defeated the Others last tim, it was the Childern of the Forest… and in my experience, forests and fire don’t usually get along.
There’s really not much redeemable about Joffrey.
Not redeemable, no. But understandable. He’s a child, with a mother who’s convinced that he’s incapable of error and an ostensible father who pretty much ignored him unless he did something unspeakable (like with the cat). A spoiled brat with no checks or balances. But it’s not his fault that he never had those.
In the same vein is the young Robert Arryn, Lysa’s son. He’s a spoiled brat who wielded absolute power in the Vale through his mother. No one ever said no to him, through a combination of Lysa’s insanity and smothering and his own (apparently) epileptic disorder.
Or Tywin
Tywin Lannister is a good leader and administrator who singlehandlely restored the Lannister family fortunes after his father’s weak leadership had left Lannister lands weak and Lannister vassals mutinious. As Hand of the King, he pretty much kept the government going during the reign (and largely in spite of) of King Aeris, and then later, King Joffrey.
Yep. Tywin was ruthless, vicious, and cold. But he really did keep the kingdom running under one totally insane king and another king who governed as an unruled child. He wasn’t a nice man, or a likeable one, but he wasn’t one-dimensional, and that’s what I was talking about when I claimed no major-character out-and-out villains other than the Mountain.
Well, all this has re-sparked my interest, and I’ve spent a good portion of today listening to the audio book of GoT. I’ve just finished the description of Daenerys’ and Khal Drogo’s wedding night. It’s reasonably graphic, and it hit me once again … she’s thirteen.
In other contexts, it would be really unacceptable to write like that.
Actually, I was kind of surprised to note that I’m not really very far into the first book, and there’s already been descriptions of rape, statutory rape (by today’s standards, anyway) and incest. For a moment, I thought I was reading Stephen R. Donaldson… 
thwartme
The amazing thing is that it only gets worse! Torture and mutilation and murder and treachery and human sacrifice are all to come yet…