After attending a conservative Christian college and a “second-tier” graduate school, I completed a master’s degree in education at a predominantly Black university. Probably less than 15% of the people there were whites. On three separate occasions, people would come up to me and say something along the lines of “You do not belong here!” Now, I never said anything to antagonize any one, but in some classroom discussions, if I offered a statement that might seem slightly “conservative” in viewpoint, people would say that I was a racist! One guy I talked to actually said that he considered all Whites inherently racist; furthermore, no Black could possibly be racist. At other times I heard people saying things like “How can a Black possibly “steal” anything from White people-- anything he took would just be payback for untold years of past suffering!” Various other hostile sentiments were expressed. I went through two years of this and completed my degree. In the last few years, however, I cannot help but think how it never occurred to me to file any type of complaint about any of this-- there were occasions when I felt quite intimidated and threatened, but I just sat there and took it, thinking “This is just what I have to put up with; soon I will have my degree and I can get out of here!” Now, had the situation been reversed, I am reasonably certain that a Black student facing this kind of hostility at a white university would have Johnny Cochran pressing a multimillion dollar lawsuit and an outraged Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on campus demanding that heads roll. What do you guys think about this? Was I just a total “wuss” to put up with this kind of treatment? Do you think a complaint would have been acted upon? I am certainly glad to be out of the situation now, but I cannot help but think of the racial double standards pampant in society today. Do I have a valid point here, or am I way off base?
Welcome to the Straight Dop Message Board, gytalf2000. Of course, there’s a racial double standard in society today. Some argue that it’s justified by the history of slavery, Jim Crow and racism.
Stupidity knows no racial bounds. Nor does intolerance.
I also find the line of reasoning behind “How can a Black possibly “steal” anything from White people-- anything he took would just be payback for untold years of past suffering!” incredibly amusing, and also incredibly shallow. None of my ancestors, to my knowledge, were anywhere outside of Europe (Germany and England, respectively) during the time of slavery. Also to my knowledge, none of my ancestors particularly oppressed black people once they got here. It shows extremely foolish thinking to say “all white people oppress(ed) all black people because some white people oppress(ed) some black people”. Indeed, it is also active stereotyping. Some white people also pushed to end slavery, when they had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Can I make a link to this thread?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=201058
Looks like I just did.
What you just did was give the lie to everyone who claims that blacks can’t be racist, because they do not control the power structures of society.
They did control the power structures of your university, and they acted no better than the worst rednecks in Dixie.
I would be surprised if any complaint from you would have been acted on.
No, it isn’t fair. Fortunately, you can go out into the larger society and be treated better. And hopefully have some sympathy for the underdog who finds in society what you found in school.
Regards,
Shodan
I agree with Priam. Just goes to show that stupidity and intolerance can be found in any color. I don’t know what else can be said about your experience.
While the slights you experienced are nothing to take lightly, your experience is not unique. As a black person, I experience a million paper cuts a day, but I don’t say anything. I have never sued anyone or written a formal complaint. I have never “gone off” on anyone (except on the SDMB, but that’s different). I think I am fairly typical.
You were a minority for a few years. It sucks being a minority and it sucks being the victim of racism. Imagine being one your whole life and having nowhere to escape.
I think you are wrong when you say a black person would have raised a shit storm if the roles had been reversed. For every racial “shit storm” you see on the news, there’s a bunch of quietly frustrated black people sitting at home, not saying a damn thing about the paper cuts they’ve suffered. We aren’t all Al Sharptons or Jesse Jacksons. We aren’t all fly-off-the-handle, overly-sensitive, race-card players.
Surely not everyone was hostile and racist towards you. Or were they?
Welcome to the SDMB, gytalf. Not to be nitpicky, but it really helps if you put breaks in your posts. Stream of consciousness doesn’t work too well on the internet.
Welcome to gytalf2000! Enjoy the thrills!
I am reasonably certain that neither Johnny Cochran, Jesse Jackson nor Al Sharpton would have been there. They can’t spread themselves thin enough to cover all of the discrimination against African-Americans in universities.
When there is blatant racial harrassment, the victim should file a complaint and heads should roll. You can’t expect anyone to address the problem if you are passive about it for two years. Maybe you can learn a little bit from your fellow students about assertiveness.
The people you have described are not typical of Black university students. For every one that got on your case, I will bet there were hundreds who did not.
May I ask why all of the attorneys that you listed are Black? Do you think that white attorneys aren’t interested in cases of racial discrimination against Blacks?
If you are going to be an educator, you are going to face harrassment in all sorts of ways. A combination of compassion and assertiveness (not aggression) will probably come in handy. You can also choose to turn your cheeck to those who “say all manner of evil against you.”
They weren’t notified.
Oh, I did not mean to imply that my interracial experiences have been entirely negative! I do not want to bring out the tired old “Some of my best friends are Black!” routine, but my experience growing up in the 1970s was quite the opposite! I had some Black acquaintances during my teenage years with which I had a number of fascinating conversations; we could banter about for hours discussing various assorted subjects, and they certainly never called me a racist! My only girlfriend in college was Black, and we got along fabulously, at least for about four months (sadly, one of my longest-lasting relationships ever, but I suppose that is another subject altogether!) there, and there was never any racial tension at all. My previous experience led me to believe that I would really enjoy graduate school at that university. I think what I find most irksome about my negative experiences is that I never heard any one come to my defense when I was being verbally berated and threatened with physical violence. Now, after I had vacated the premises and gone home, I would sometimes get phone calls from some people who were present during the attack. They would ask how I was, and reassure me that “------- is just a big jerk; you know we do not all feel that way about you White people!”
This made me feel better, but they never confronted my detractors to their faces-- they just apologized after the fact for their companions’ rude and abusive behavior! This stands in stark contrast to my experiences in high school, when I stood up for some of my Black friends when they were accosted by bigots! I am a small guy, and those guys who were bothering my friends were quite a bit larger—I placed myself in physical danger and probably would have wound up in the hospital were it not for the timely intervention of the vice-principal! (That was the closest I had ever come to an actual physical confrontation, and believe me, I was terrified! But I think I did the right thing!)
So I guess I really just felt kind of betrayed that no one would stand up and “do the right thing” and tell the Black bigots to get off my back! That would have made it a bit easier to take!
I’m sorry you dealt with some real jerks out there who use their history to abuse others. As the old adage goes, “Two wrongs don’t make a right”.
Assholes are assholes and people are people, gytalf2000. Just from your few posts, it sounds like you’re an extremely nice one, as well as brave when you feel it is necessary. Cheers to you for your past actions, because they do you a great deal of credit. All you can really do now would be three-fold…
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Try to always remember the good people, even if they didn’t stand up for you at the time. It can be tough to call your peers wrong to their face, and that can be doubly difficult when you’re in a minority group. You depend so much on your community for daily support that potentially depriving yourself of it is very threatening. Be grateful for the fact that at least some knew you were in the right.
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Try to learn from this experience, however unjust it has been. That doesn’t mean you should embrace it and be thankful that you had to live through such moments, but as monstro suggest, let them give you some perspective on what minorities potentially face day in and day out. Do not excuse those who visited injustice upon you, but use such to make your experiences a little richer. As the cliche goes, “When life gives you lemons, make lemonade”.
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See what you can do to end this next time, because it is injustice. Just as you stood up for your black friends when you saw bigotry being perpetuated against them, try to find ways to stand up against what is thrown at you. Even if your actions fail, you owe it to yourself to at least try. File a complaint, argue back, don’t let them talk down to you. Bigotry is bigotry, and racism is racism, no matter what skin color starts using it.
Just as with little kids, “he (whites) started it!” does not excuse blacks for continuing it. Do what you think you can to make things better.
Priam says it all – and in such a pleasant way.
You did not mention the threat of physical violence in your OP. That is a crime. Do you mind if I ask what was threatened?
G2, welcome. Y’know, for once, I’m in agreement with everyone on the board thusfar. Forget the myopic, militant, hateful jackasses you dealt with, but NEVER, EVER forget how that made you feel, and that my dear person, should give you all the mettle you need to face any interpersonal (nevermind interracial) conflicts. Be humble, be sure you stand on the side of right, and you’ve done what you can. Again, Welcome, and enjoy the ride.
While no one physically assaulted me in the sense of actually throwing a punch, I was often “bumped into” by guys who were much larger (I am only 5’ 2") when they had plenty of room in the hallway to pass by – and they would give me a look that signified that they did it intentionally. One particular guy who was well over a foot taller than me took great delight in flexing his considerable muscles when he was around me and saying things like “You know what these arms could do to you, White boy?” Physical violence towards Whites was often talked about-- guys would brag about phoning in an order for pizza, and if the delivery guy happened to be White, they would beat him up! Some of the guys really enjoyed talking about “messing up the White boys!” It was a pattern of intimidation that no one, White, Black, or whatever, should have to go through!
All of this behavior stood in stark contrast to my previous experiences with Blacks— as I mentioned before, I had a really good time palling around with several Black families in my neighborhood and school during my teenage years in the seventies. I had always assumed that we were basically past the stage where race was so important! That attitude was reinforced in college (a conservative Christian college), where I met a really sweet, pretty Black girl and dated her for several months. I thought we were at the point in history where race would matter less and less as time went on— I always assumed there would be some bigotry to confront, but it would be less of a factor with each passing generation! I suppose I was wrong…
What exactly are these paper cuts? Everyone on the planet has a less than perfect life, and I’d be real interested in exactly what you believe are racially motivated events against you. We’ll have to balance whatever you list off, of course, with your being the beneficiary of legal institutionalized racism in the form of preferential treatment for hiring and college admittance. Lets stack it up and see how it comes out! (More likely, of course, is that people will accuse me of being a racist and not actually list off the ‘paper cuts’, making this more of an ‘affirm that white people are bad’ thread than a great debate, but hey.)
I have to take issue with this statement. Somehow I doubt that you deal with a dozen of what you term “paper cuts” a day, much less a million. Especially when you followed up your statements with:
Or are they now to you, monstro? Look, I can understand that racism exists, that there are people of any culture or race that can be said to be racist, or that are beyond any doubt racist. Anyone who has lived a life outside of a closed room has experienced a degree of racism in thier daily life.
However, to describe yourself as a person who suffers a “million paper cuts a day” speaks to your hypersensitivity about race issues (or your perception of racism), not to the problem.
Along with Riboflavin, I’d like a few examples of the million paper cuts a day that you appear to endure.
And in response to the OP, of course there are double standards, as you managed to experience in an up close and personal way. Were you a wuss to put up with it? Probably not. Complaining would likely have had further negative results for you, even if the complaint were acted upon.
I see a lot of the reverse racism (I hate that term, but don’t have a better one) as a pathetically weak attempt to justify behavior that is uncivilized and detrimental, e.g. “I can be racist because it’s payback for all of the opression forced on me and my people.”
Bullshit. People aren’t “opressed” in modern American society any more than they allow themselves to be.
monstro, you speak so well. I can tell you went to white schools.
monstro, you’re black. Maybe you understand so-and-so.
monstro, do you think you’re here because of Affirmative Action?
monstro, aren’t you ashamed of Al Sharpton?
monstro, your hair isn’t normal. But your nose is quite fine. That’s what I didn’t know you were black right away.
monstro, why aren’t you afraid of those thugs who hang out on all the street corners?
monstro, that girl over there described her neighborhood as “bad”, but she doesn’t know what’s she’s talking about. It’s predominately white; it can’t be all that bad!
monstro, how do you feel about reparations? Come on, now. Let’s get into an argument about whether you want to or not. I watched that 60 Minutes yesterday and it got me thinking.
monstro, you know I’m not talking about you, right? You’re different.
monstro, don’t complain about being stared at in stores. As long as black people commit more crimes than white people, it’s just the price you have to pay.
monstro, don’t be sad. I was just kidding.
OK. You got me. I don’t suffer from a million anything. I guess when I post on the GD, I have to expect that someone will read my posts literally and never give me any poetic licence.
You doubt me when I say I suffer from numerous slights a day but you take gytalf at face value when he describes his experiences. Why is that?
You don’t know how it’s like to be me. You don’t know what I suffer. Anyone who knows me in real life knows that I’m not hypersensitive. I’m very laid back and mellow. I wear a permanent fucking grin so that no one knows just what’s going on in monstro’s head. And of course, I’ve never written a “I’m a victim of racism” kind of thread on the SDMB. No, because I don’t want to be accused on whining.
Double standard indeed.
I expressed sympathy with the OP because I know how it feels to be an outsider? Do you?
Nitpick: “Bullshit” should be placed at the end of this statement, not at the beginning. It makes more sense that way.
Please forgive my typos, dear reader. Repressed anger makes my fingers clumsy.
Would it be a “paper cut” of sorts to speculate on the race of the folks questioning monstro’s experiences? 