I was listening to an NPR report on a crowd gathering at Columbia, related to the pressure-cooker incidents playing out elsewhere. One person speaking to the group, a woman student of color based on how the clip was set up, said “are you the ‘other person of color’ in your class? Are you always referred to by that other person’s name because the faculty and other students can’t be bothered to notice the difference? THAT is Columbia.”
This scenario was framed as an example of a “microaggression” as they have come to be referred to.
It is also framed by folks seeing too much protesting going on as a simple mistake that people are getting upset about unnecessarily.
A more realistic view of this type of mistake is that they lie on a spectrum.
So - can this topic be discussed thoughtfully?
If anyone of color or another identifiable subgroup where you run the risk of getting lumped together: is there a line that gets crossed when you judge it to be something prejudiced vs. a simple mistake?
For folks coming at it from the “don’t get butthurt about this” side of things, what would you need to see that would lead you to say “okay, for that particular situation, I can see that it is part of a bigger systemic problem”?
When I was fatter than I currently am, I was often confused with a similarly sized colleague. I never considered it to be a “microagression”. It’s just the way people’s brains work.
It’s not racial, it’s not insensitive, it’s just the way people think, or don’t think. I can’t count the times I have been “the other tall white-haired guy”. It is a bullshit reason to whine.
Crotalus - yes, I have been the ‘other XXX’ in my own ways, too. Perhaps carving out this specific scenario does it a disservice: if all we do is isolate it, it is easy to dismiss as whiny.
But I can see a scenario where it is part of a larger cultural issue within a community or geography.
It’s a natural mistake, and if it’s an intro class with three hundred people in it, that might not ever change. If it’s a smaller class and you have regular interactions with the people you’ve been mixing up, it would be rude not to put some effort into telling them apart instead of treating them like the interchangeable POC.
In my experience, people tend to have a harder time distinguishing different members of a group that is not like their own group. I don’t automatically assume it is a racial thing so much as a tendency for people to be able to much more easily spot differences in people they see most often.
As an example, for the other black people I know, it is readily apparent to me most of the time when one of them has gotten a haircut. But when it comes to folks who have straight, longer hair, I almost never notice. Even my ex-wife (who was not black) used to get frustrated with me for not noticing when she’d have inches cut off, but I just didn’t see it unless it was really brought to my attention. I think the same thing is happening when a majority group can see the differences in other people within their group, but not the same type of differences in a minority group.
Which is not to say that when a former co-worker and I (who were the only two black males in our office) were mistaken for one another, we didn’t have occasion to roll our eyes.
I vote a simple mistake. Being mistaken for someone else isn’t because of race. Obviously, if you’re going to be mistaken for someone else, you’re unlikely to be mistaken for someone of a different race.
And speaking from my own experience, I’ve been mistaken for people often. I’m muscular with long blonde hair. Name that pro-wrestler or athlete with long blonde hair, and I’ve been told I look like them, many of whom I have nothing in common with other than long hair. I’ve even had people insist one getting pictures with me or get my autograph, despite my insisting I’m not famous, and still left unsure who they think I am. Other times, I’ve had them insist I was just trying to avoid spotlight or whatever, and had to just make shit up to get them to leave me alone.
Regardless, even though I have noticed that it’s disproportionately likely to come from non-white people I meet, it’s never occurred to me to think of any of those interactions as racist, because we ALL make certain mental shortcuts about what identifies various people to us. I also suspect we’re going to be better at identifying people we deal with a lot, which is likely to be people of the same race or at least races we’re likely to see. So, as a general rule, I can tell apart white people better than most non-white people, because I’m white and I deal with more white people than non-white people. Similarly, I suspect an Asian person is better at differentiating features of Asians than I am, or black people other black people, or whatever.
So, in short, I’d say it’s racist to believe and flat out say something like “all Asians look alike”, but not to simply make a mistake in identifying someone. Hell, I’ve even become aware of how I identify certain people by other people I find myself quickly mistaking for them.
Thank you for adding to the discussion. So - “awkward persistence” is part of crossing the line. When continuing to mistake over time, past a reasonable time, so it can come off like a passive-aggressive attempt to be dismissive or condescending.
Or not caring enough to get it straight. The act doesn’t have to be overt aggression, but a passive act demonstrating that getting it straight is “low priority” issue to end up being frustrating.
This, exactly. This is why my coworker and I would sometimes roll our eyes. These people worked with us every day, in some cases for many years, and it just came off as lazy when they would refer to one of us by the other’s name.
But let us suppose that you are different from someone in every other way–especially in personality, knowledge, and background. And you’ve been around or working with these people for a while. And they still call you by that guy’s name? Doesn’t that suggest that they aren’t recognizing you as a whole and distinct person?
That’s different; that’s strangers, taking one person they don’t know at all for another person they don’t know at all and probably have only seen pictures of. Of course these people are using a small set of strictly superficial identifiers; there is nothing else.
But it ought to be different with real people that you repeatedly spend time with.
Also, if there are just a few minorities in a group, shouldn’t it be easier to remember names? I’m pretty terrible at remembering names, but if there were just two black men in the office, it would be pretty easy to keep just two guys straight, rather than the many white guys and all their names.
I can completely understand not remembering names, or mixing up names. But I can also understand people’s point of view when it happens constantly, that there’s something more than just bad memory in regards to names.
To my embarrassment I did this in my class this semester. I have a very diverse class with many black, hispanic, arabic folks, so it’s not a situation of confusing the only two black students. One black student, who usually sits in the back, sat up front one day. He happened to sit in the same seat that another black student usually sits in. He raised his hand, which I saw out of the corner of my eye, and when I called on him I used the other student’s name.
I was so embarrassed- I really didn’t want him to think I just lumped “black guys in class” together. Fact is I have tremendous trouble telling faces apart in general and when they switch seats I’m in real trouble, but i cover well so he probably didn’t realize it was a general problem.
I made a point of using his name multiple times during class to show I did know who he was.
Some folks are just bad at associating faces they recognize with names. One of the pretty common things you learn to do if you’re crappy at facial recognition but want to attempt to be polite to people* is make a little file in your mind that cross-references physical descriptions with names and then use that file to narrow down the possibilities. Also, a lot of people overestimate their own ability to remember people’s names
If I suck at this (and I do, oh God do I ever), sometimes you have to narrow it down as best you can and then guess and hope like hell you’re right (and then be really embarrassed if you’re not). If you work at an office with 100 people, of which two are Asian men, you have a 50% chance of guessing correctly if you gotta guess. If there are, for example 25 or so brunet white guys between 5-10 and 6 foot and around 200 pounds (give or take 20) without beards or tattoos or glasses or a convenient mole or scar, your odds of guessing correctly drop like a rock. The lower the odds of guessing correctly are, the higher the incentive to try really, really hard not to use a name that might be wrong.
I’m good at recognizing people I’ve seen/met before - I’m actually really, really good at this. It is remembering the name associated with that face that often escapes me. I currently have this issue at my office - I’ve worked here for approximately six months. Of the 10 or so lawyers at this firm, there are 5 who are roughly physically similar. I recognize them all as “guys who work at my firm”, but they’re all middle-aged, brunet white dudes of approximately the same height and general build, so I still can’t reliably tell - for example - Matthew from Ed from Kevin. I don’t have any difficulty remembering the tall, skinny, silver-haired one is Charles because I know that Charles is the tall, skinny, silver-haired one. Similarly, I know Peter is the short, skinny, glasses one. It only took me a couple of days to be able to reliably remember the two I specifically work for, but the rest of them? The similar-looking ones it’s likely to be at least another few months unless there’s some fairly memorable incident in the meantime.
Other than make serious, concerted efforts to avoid having to use people’s freaking names.
Some people are just more prone in persistently calling people by the wrong name. My boss sometimes calls the two ladies here by his wife’s name by accident. And one of them is his own daughter, which is weird and awkward in other ways.
It took me a long time to realize that I have facial recognition problems. My primary device for differentiating people I don’t know well is by their hair. I often mistake the Filipino women who work in my office for each other because many of them have exactly the same hair texture and style. One particularly activist Filipino woman got really angry with me for frequently mixing up names. I explained my issue to her, and pointed out that I also have trouble telling apart the two white guys with similar moustaches, and the three white guys with the same short red haircut. She mostly got it, but still has a little bit of difficulty not thinking that I have something against Filipino women. So I think it can be discussed, if you’re sensitive to the fact that what might seem innocent to one group of people (I don’t think the red-haired guys care that I mix them up) can be an emotional touchpoint for others.
There is a group of guys I sometimes hang out with. We all know each others first names, but last names just never come up. There are two Joes in the group. One is white and the other is black. I have no idea what their last names are.
We all call them black Joe and white Joe. I have a feeling some people would be offended; even I sometimes have mixed feelings about the situation, but it works.
Anyone a parent? How often do you call one kid by the other’s name? My mom did it all the time. 10 years between my brother and I. I’m pretty sure she actually knew which was which. I’ve heard parents do it with siblings of opposite genders. I did it all the time when we had two dogs.
So yeah, people confuse names, and they do it more when there is an identifying characteristic in common, be it the two black guys, or my kids, or the cleaning ladies, or whatever. To take offense over it is manufacturing outrage, and an indication that there aren’t bigger issues to worry about.
