Racial segregation at universities--a growing, and legitimate trend?

Bill Maher is an astute and well-informed political comedian.
He’s a liberal, but is also featured on Fox news ,because he is very opposed to the extreme left,“woke” side of the progressive movement.

In this clip, he criticizes the growing movement by the left to return to 1950’s-style racial segregation.
And he offers some shocking statistics about universities which provide racially segregated residences, and segregated graduation ceremonies.

(I linked to the specific moment where he makes the claim, but the entire 8 minute clip is worth watching, for Maher’s critique of overly “woke” calls for re-education, and separate national anthems for each race.)

First :a GQ style question: Are Maher’s statistics true?
(He gives no source, the numbers he quotes are from an unnamed “recent survey of 173 colleges” . )

And Second: is this really a growing trend, and if so, in which colleges?

I know that Fox News loves to exaggerate stories about “snowflakes” on campuses demanding safe spaces, etc.
But to me, Maher’s point seems reasonable and true.
We need more togetherness as stated by Obama’s style of liberalism (see how Maher includes a clip of Obama’s famous speech, at 2.24 in the link ), not the divisiveness of these universities and today’s style of woke liberalism.

Is Maher exaggerating the issue, or is it really a growing problem, with scary implications ?

Undated opinion piece from the National Association of Scholars (a conservative, anti-political correctness organization, despite its lofty-sounding name). But it does cite its sources, and there appears to be some validity to the claims Maher has made.

One thing that should be noted is that the proportion of black students at historically black colleges is actually going down. This is because many black students now go to colleges that up to the mid-twentieth century didn’t accept black students at all. Some of the historically black colleges now have no more than half of their students being black. So what we have now is colleges and universities in the U.S. are much less divided into nearly all black and nearly all white ones. So calling this an increase in segregation isn’t very useful. American colleges are not themselves segregated. Whether there is an increase in the number of organizations within them that are segregated is a different matter.

AIUI, the idea is that segregation isn’t necessarily bad - there’s good segregation and bad segregation. If segregation takes the form of hindering minorities - ie…, “Colored fountains” vs “White fountains”, it’s bad. If it takes the form of giving a safe space to minorities - such as a blacks-only room, women-only facility, Hispanic-only event - then it’s good.

I don’t agree with it, but that seems to be a large component of the argument.

OMG, not this nonsense again. No, as GreysonCarlisle’s link makes clear, black undergraduates are not trying to hold “segregated graduation ceremonies”.

This, and AFAICT all the similar events that conservative media have squawked about as “segregated graduation ceremonies”, is an ADDITIONAL VOLUNTARY celebration event to acknowledge Black graduates. It is in no way a substitute for the institution’s official Commencement exercises where all graduating students, of all races, actually receive their degrees.

Graduating college students frequently have additional graduation celebrations for graduating members of particular fraternities/sororities, or athletes on particular varsity teams, or underrepresented groups such as women in engineering, or first-generation college students, and so on and so forth.

There is nothing wrong, or in any way new, about different communities within the larger campus community having their own celebratory events in addition to campus-wide events. The only reason conservative media are bleating about “racial segregation” in this context is to dishonestly promote popular distrust and disdain of academia.

(ETA: I thought we had figured this out back in March.)

Oh, and here’s the AP’s breakdown of recent media fusses over allegedly “racially segregated dorms”:

(Note, btw, that in this case the conservative media are getting their rumors from the Trotskyist World Socialist Web Site, which has also led the charge against the 1619 Project for a more honest treatment of slavery and racism in the teaching of American history in the US.)

I suspect Maher is full of shit. The cites so far seem to bear that out.

I imagine that if Caucasian students wished to hold their own graduation event, they would be crucified.
Maher often makes good points, but he is a dick.

Right, they would indeed by outrage, and why do you think that is? Which group historically holds the power?

And furthermore, “Lift Ev’ry Voice and Sing” is not in any way an official “Black national anthem”, although it’s commonly called that (and IIRC is the official song of the NAACP).

Celebrating the end of slavery and the liberty of Black Americans is something for everybody to sing about.

Because “Caucasian” doesn’t really exist as a community except insofar as it excludes non-white people. Historically, white separatism is not about actual cultural/ethnic community but about hogging power and privilege via racial discrimination.

If, say, Scotch-Irish Appalachian students or the Ancient Order of Hibernians or the Sons of Italy or the Turkish Student Union or any other group of white/Caucasian people that represented an actual cultural/ethnic community wanted to hold its own graduation celebration, they’d be welcome to do that.

But trying to treat “Black students” and “white/Caucasian students” as equivalent forms of social grouping is bullshit.

Most high school have a special graduation ceremony for either Christian or Theist kids, in the firm of the baccalaureate ceremony. It’s not officially sponsored by the school, but some places, at least, its a pretty big deal. It’s often “non-denominationa” in the sense of “any type of Protestant” non-denominational. Non-Christians are technically welcome, but typically don’t attend, because why would they?

No one gets upset, because Baccalaureate is a private event. This sounds the same.

That’s basically the argument and it’s absolutely inconsistent and wrong.

You aren’t even treating the adjectives equally. It’s sort of telling that equality is not the desired state when folks aren’t willing to treat each group equally.

Yeah, I’m sorry but Maher is mixing up some things that don’t necessarily go together. Not that some of those pushing back on him are getting things crystal clear either but still…

As already pointed out, the “black commencements” and such are voluntary events, they are not required and they do not substitute for the official ceremonies.

As to “Lift Every Voice…” the previous week’s segment had me puzzled – who of a certain age and cultural awareness did not know that it is referred to as “the Black National Anthem”?? I’ve known that for most of my life.

Now, I do say that it the NFL is indeed putting it in combo/parallel to the official National Anthem, then that is yet one more case of a major sports league being inept at how do you make a good point AND look good doing it. Really, for 20 years I have been expected at some point during my otherwise fun weekend afternoon to spend some time reverently abiding by a public call for God to Bless America, often shortly before the actual National Anthem. So go ahead and replace THAT with Lift Every Voice and Sing.

Because their functions are significantly different, as I clearly explained.

The racial adjective “white” or “Caucasian” in the US doesn’t refer to a specific culture or ethnicity (unless “Caucasian” is being used narrowly to mean certain people from the Caucasus region in Eurasia, which is not how it’s generally used). It’s just a catchall designation for the people who are considered eligible for the top group in the traditional American racial-supremacy hierarchy. It has no particular cultural or linguistic meaning of its own in that context; it’s defined merely by the exclusion of groups considered non-white.

The racial adjective “Black” in the US, on the other hand, is a specific designation of a disadvantaged minority group. They’ve been subjected to a shared historical experience of devastating and persistent oppression that has made for them a shared ethnicity and culture. (Even if their originally enslaved ancestors in their home regions traditionally considered themselves culturally, ethnically and linguistically very different from one another.)

What’s telling is when “folks” are trying to erase the history of racial oppression and discrimination by pretending that racial privilege and racial disadvantage are exactly the same thing and need to be regarded in exactly the same way. It’s no more truly egalitarian than declaring a single start time for a race between two competitors where one of them gets to start 100 meters from the finish line, while the other one starts 400 meters further back.

It’s those fake-egalitarian folks who are showing clearly that equality is not their desired state. What they’re after is simply maintaining the status quo where the “right” people are far more likely to win the race because of their preset advantage.

Who’s offering a “blacks-only room” or “Hispanic-only event”? (“Women-only facilities” are a different matter, depending what kind of facility we’re talking about.)

I pointed out in post #6 an example of the way colleges distinguish between supporting minorities and discriminatory segregation. The point of Jim Crow-style segregation with “White” and “Colored” drinking fountains was to drive home the message that non-white people weren’t good enough for “white spaces” and needed to keep out of them to avoid contaminating them with their inferior non-whiteness.

The point of minority-affirming actions like a Black Student Union graduation celebration, on the other hand, is to drive home the message that non-white people are good enough for traditionally “white spaces” like universities, that their historical and persistent exclusion from such spaces is wrong, and that they’re entitled to some places and events in those traditionally “white spaces” that prioritize their own experience and culture, and reaffirm that they belong there. None of which has anything to do with officially forbidding those spaces to white students on the basis of their race, unlike the real racial segregation of the Jim Crow era (and beyond).

First - I’d like a cite on that. My impression of Maher most definitely does vary.

Second - the part that you linked to is contextually wrong. And stupid (which goes along with my impression of Maher). Are there really “segregated orientation programs” or do colleges that know that they have problems with retaining BIPOC students offer additional orientation that is geared at students of color (but can be attended by all students)? In my experience, it’s the latter.

Similarly, are there really “Segregated Graduation Ceremonies” or do clubs like the Black Student Union or Asian Student Union (which are also open to all students) also have an additional graduation party/ceremony to honor members of the club? In my experience, again the latter. I have seen similar things with what he’s calling “segregated residences” - anyone can live there. I’m assuming white students opt to live elsewhere (not having been a white student, I don’t know. I don’t know what they do)

I admit, I didn’t watch the rest of his video - the part I did see was wrong enough that I doubt the rest was any better. But he got his recreational outrage and clicks and views so…whatever.

It’s just more of the eternal systemic-racism bullshit. “Anything that helps affirm or support minority identities, to validate that their culture and their experiences belong in the traditionally ‘white-only’ spaces that they used to be deliberately excluded from, is JUST AS BAD as the segregation that deliberately excluded them in the first place!” Shee-eeesh.

But yeah, there are enough (mostly white) conservatives who love that “No, I’M the victim!” fake-egalitarian recreational outrage enough that the schtick will always make money. Nobody ever went broke assuring white Americans that they’re the REAL sufferers from societal unfairness.

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.

Excluding people on the basis of their skin colour is racist, divisive and ultimately harmful to society. No matter who is doing it. I don’t trust the motives of people who think otherwise.

Is it happening in USA universities? I don’t know whether it is or to what extent.
I do recall reading about some student accomodation that was either wholly reserved for, or exclusively for, black students. If that is no longer happening then excellent, if it is, it is racist.