Racism Question

What do you think of the argument that protests and marches and complaints towards people who may or may not have done something discriminatory accomplish more harm than good?

I don’t think there’s any doubt that openly racist crimes still happen - according to Yahoo’s front page today, they’ve been on the rise since the election.

At Purdue University there was an incident at a locally owned restaurant where seven black students complained about bad service. Theirs may have been a fair complaint, or may have been a misunderstanding about seating customs at that locale where patrons are often asked to wait outside until space opens up and are usually asked to “slide over” rather than leaving open seats.

Someone took umbrage, a fight broke out, a pregnant student may or may not have been shoved into a window, and when the police responded they’re alleged to have used racist language and handled the students poorly.

That’s one version of what transpired. Witness accounts vary. I sure don’t know what actually took place - I’ve only been to that restaurant once, and I thought the service was really poor (and it’s overpriced, too). But apparently it’s a beloved local landmark. Whatever.

So this incident, which happened Nov. 2, hit the papers a few days later and it’s just been a mess.

In the resulting brouhaha the NAACP came to town to give the restaurant owners (who weren’t present when the whole thing happened) a talking-to. Their planned protest towards the restaurant owners morphed into a celebration of diversity.
But there’ve been a wide range of reactions in the local newspaper’s forum.

Quite a few people, some strident and some calm, have complained that “it’s not the '60’s anymore” and having the NAACP jump in and call for marches and protests exacerbates what could have been treated as a simple misunderstanding.

What do you think?

Wow, plenty of views, no replies.

Boring question, or too hot to touch?
I’ve been mulling this over quite a bit. Issues of prejudice have always fascinated me; I was 9 yrs old when the Indianapolis Public School system started busing. I remember my friends’ white parents protesting and the angry, frightened black children who came to our school.

I also remember in 1981 when MTV was all-white, because (according to their executives) “There’s no interest in black artists.”

I’d watched Sesame Street, I new racism was silly. I was the kid who befriended the black students at our school, who complained about MTV not showing any Earth, Wind & Fire, who dated a teenager who was black (and paid for it, my choice was NOT well-received at our school). Heck, I worked at KFC where half of our customers, and all the senior employees who trained me, were black. I respected my co-workers and enjoyed trading dialects with them, we had fun together.

That’s where I learned that when a black person entered the restaurant and saw another black person in the lobby, that eye contact, nod and “Hey” they’d exchange was very deliberate. It’s something I adopted, just a moment of recognition that carries a bit of respect and makes the world a little less hostile.

I’ve always been confident I’m not at all racist - and yet, on a couple of occasions I’ve been accused of bigotry by people who did not know me well. It happened just the other day in an online forum when my attempt at a joke bombed badly; and, in light of the racist incidents that are happening in this country right now, it’s made me re-examine the whole issue.

And it seems like today’s youth are much more color-blind than I ever learned to be. My “liberalism” is dated, I worked at KFC back in 1982; making eye contact with someone who’s black because they’re black, nowadays I’m guessing that might be offensive?

I don’t know.

Are we racist if we associate any meaning at all with skin tone?
But doesn’t doing so ignore the extra burden that people of color usually have, and the extra meaning associated with some of their accomplishments?
How do people want to be treated?

I’m not positive about this, but I did think of an answer, perhaps, to that question and the one I posed in the OP.

The recent incident at that restaurant here in town reminded me of a time, 20 years ago, when I pissed off a patron at the public library by pausing on my way to help him.

As he stood at the desk waiting, I stopped to fish a pop-up book out from under the counter and handed it to a small child who was jumping up and down impatiently. This patron, a black man, read me the riot act. I stood there and took it, thinking “I’m not a bigot”, and from then on felt much more defensive about serving our black patrons, much more on guard.

That I could be so accused struck me as the height of unfairness, of “black power” asserting itself over “white power” just for the sake of doing so. NOW I knew what my family and friends were talking about when they’d complain about “those people” and how they wanted “special treatment”.

That was my reaction at the time, in 1987.

But you know what, the truth is, when I was 22 yrs old, I was a horrible Librarian Assistant. I did a terrible job at that job. I gave poor service to many patrons, not just that black man. He was the only one who ever chewed me out, and he did so on the basis of my presumed racism (which I still don’t agree with), but he was right that I didn’t serve him well and with respect.

That restaurant has the same problem - I don’t think they serve people well. I doubt that the owners are bigots, during the dialogue that followed on campus the owners were defended by a several black students whom they’d helped in other, low-key ways, apparently that couple is quite philanthropic. But I know my kids and I were treated poorly there the one time we went, a couple of years ago; the staff chatted up the regulars and ignored us.
I’m sure there are cases of outright bigotry and racism happening in our country, I know there are people who are hard-core big-mouthed prejudiced and also those who are cold-distant-afraid prejudiced. Like my Aunt, who went into a nervous tizzy the day we took the twins to the mall’s playland and happened to sit down next to a black father watching his children. Yet she did vote for Obama (don’t tell anyone at her church, though, they’d freak).
So I was thinking that I wondered what the NAACP says these days when they come to town and give the restaurant owners a talking to, in cases where the restaurant owners aren’t outright bigots.

It must be like chasing a fog, fighting soft prejudice in our country; where is it?

How do you advocate for better treatment of blacks without increasing the divide, appearing to ask for special consideration, making the problem worse? How does one make the world MORE color-blind, not less?

And it finally occurred to me – you treat it as a HUMAN problem.
Not a black problem.
Not a white problem.
We all need to treat each other better.

I’ll bet that’s what they came to town and said.

I don’t know that the question is too hot to touch, but it’s a tricky one to answer.

My quick answer, speaking only for myself, is that I react neutrally tending toward negatively when I encounter any kind of organized protest. For instance, a group of Blacks making a big to-do about racial discrimination they’re experiencing at the hands of Whites naturally includes me as the intended audience on some level. Similarly I feel like the target audience for gay pride marches because I’m not gay.

My point is that it seems to me like a double standard. The “oppressed” resent being painted with the broad brush and being held accountable for the sterotype their group bears, and so they advertise their disatisfaction in the face of a likewise generalized adversary.

I don’t give people a hard time just because they’re somehow different from me and I don’t give any quarter to others who do, and so on some level I resent the generalness of group protests.

As for the example in the OP, I don’t know the situation sO i don’t know if it was actually racially charged.

:confused: That’s like saying you feel like a target of the Santa Claus parade because you’re Jewish, or a target of the St. Patrick’s Day parade because you’re Mexican. Just sayin’.

But to the OP, I think it’s in everyone’s best interest to pick your battles carefully. If you skew the telling of your tale to make a racist/homophobic/sexist issue when there is none, it can later undermine genuine efforts for system reform or racial harmony in a “cry wolf” kind of way.

Like a lesser degree Ashley Todd hoax - carving the B in her own face - or the college girl who claimed swastikas were painted on her dorm door, when she really did it herself . The next real victim of a hate crime may not be taken as seriously. The false reports undermine the credibility of genuine events.

I knew a guy in college who tried to make a huge big deal about getting kicked off a bus. He contacted the student newspaper about how he was the only non-white passenger (true) and how the driver pulled over and kicked him off the bus (true) because the driver “didn’t need people like him bothering other passengers” (true quote).

But it wasn’t a racism issue. We’d all been out drinking like only college boys can. We’d stopped at a Mr. Submarine, climbed aboard the bus, and when he decided he didn’t like his sub, he started tossing lunchmeat around like little, meat frisbees. People were getting mustard and crap on their clothes. We were the one’s who said: “Dude, knock it off, you’re gonna get us kicked of the bus.” And apparently the bus driver thought that was a good idea (but he only kicked off Meat Boy).

“I don’t need people like you bothering other passengers” didn’t mean “I don’t need wetbacks like you…” the bus driver meant (and it was clear to everyone who was on the bus that night): “I don’t need drunk little asshats like you causing trouble.”

It’s NOT helpful to any cause when you skew the nature of a situation. If one honestly truly believe it was discrimination, and they are acting in good faith, that’s one thing (misunderstandings happen). But if you create an issue (or make unfair assumptions) where there was really no such intention, it can affect how people perceive the legitimacy of more serious complaints.

My sister has been discriminated against for being queer, sure, but if someone is a total bastard to her, she’s not going to assume the reason why is that she’s queer unless it’s pretty damn explicit.

I don’t know about the case in the OP though.

fessie Yes, holding a protest march can only do harm.

Protesting and marching is for addressing institutional concerns not the behavior of individuals. All it does is breed resentment and show force. ‘Look racists we can conjure a mob to cow you into submission.’ It doesn’t change anything.

Also it waters down protests. I know a ton of people who don’t go to marches of any kind anymore because they see them as being pointless and ineffective. That’s part of the result of holding a march for every occasion.

Celebrations of diversity are really only meaningful as fodder for comedians now.

There is still racism, but the racists can’t stop you from becoming President based on your skin color. So now, it is appropriate to say, ‘it’s time to get over it’. Racists are a minority of vocal assholes.

I cringe when I hear the term, ‘bias crime’, as if hate crimes were not specious enough. If you stab your girlfriend to death because she cheated on you it shouldn’t be any different from stabbing someone to death because he’s black. What’s relevant is not why you stabbed someone to death, merely that you stabbed someone to death.

I agree with this. Protest marches should be designed for social change, when used for individuals it’s more like “intimidation” and only serves to further divide communities into pockets of “us” and “them”.

I understand this point of view, but it’s my understanding that the difference is a “hate crime” or “bias motivated crime” is seen as a different class because of its potential to incite violence against a targeted social group in a more widespread way.

The logic is: you killed your roommate because he sold your puppy. That’s a specific personal motive stemming from a situation that is unique to you, not everyone shares that experience, and it’s a lot more likely to be a one-of in the grand scheme of society.

You randomly kill a total stranger because you saw him wearing a turban. Seeing guys in turbans is a more common experience for a lot more people. You as an example of “this is the way to deal with men wearing turbans” is bad, you bad, bad example you. It makes random targets out of people walking down the street.

Like you, I think the crime is a way bigger deal than the motive, but I understand the logic of the “hate crime” designation. Identical personal motives are less likely to re-occur throughout society in general (there was only one puppy-stealing-selling roommate). Your roommate-killing crime doesn’t have socio-political implications and it’s not as likely that people will be inspired to follow your example in any kind of widespread way.

swallowed my cellphone That is precisely why I have a problem with it. Just because I kill someone with a turban doesn’t mean someone else will. I should be tried for murder and that’s it. Even if someone else killed someone in a turban it wouldn’t be an epidemic. I guarantee you more cheating girlfriends get killed every year than guys with turbans.