Alright I’m just coming from experience of ignorant high schoolers, and the sight of news stories about racist acts. My thought is why is there still racism? Has the world not seen enough of hatred, war and blood yet? My theory is that everyones tears are the same, we all bleed, and we all poop. Anybody have a reaction?:dubious:
To you.
The reason racism exists is because not everyone sees it that way. The see other people as merely caricatures and racism is the best way to not mentally overload. Or some people realize this but think they DESERVE it, i.e. the honkies need to pay for the slavery they put us through, the niggers deserve it for the fear the black panthers instilled in us through the civil rights movement, the Jews (is there a racial slur for Jews? I’m trying to be equally offensive here, so that in the sum of all things I end up offending no one) deserve it for crucifying and betraying our lord and savior, those Japs still deserve it for bombing Pearl Harbor, I could go on and on but I think you get the point.
As a disclaimer I obviously don’t believe any of these things for a second, and the racial slurs were illustrative, not sincere, but some people do believe it. There’s no good way to logically rationalize racism, it exists because of an illogical set of axioms that people cling to (see my post in the “why is there still ignorance” thread) while dismissing beliefs that don’t jibe with their world view.
Here’s a great article on the subject, funny but still thoughtful and illustrative:
My personal belief is that racism is hard-wired into most humans. I don’t exclude myself from this.
That is to say - humans naturally fear other humans that appear too dissimilar. They also tend to believe that “different looking” humans are worse than they are.
This doesn’t make it right, it just is. IMO, overcoming racism is not saying “I feel exactly the same about two strangers that happen to be from different ethnic backgrounds”. Overcoming racism is saying “despite my gut reaction, all humans have equal value and I will treat them as such.”
That’s probably true to an extent, but I think the concept of vestigial evolutionary “tribal rivalry” as a reason for racism is overrepresented, after all, the vast majority of competitors a given tribe would be facing would look mostly similar, and would probably even have a similar ancestry at some point. The concept of racism isn’t so much they’re different enough to be seen as competitors so much that they’re different ENOUGH that they don’t ping on the “this is a human just like me!” radar at all.
Racism is pretty institutionalized in East and Southeast Asia, among other places. There have been entire threads debating which culture is exactly the most racist. The locals over here see nothing inherently immoral about racism and seem to regard the Westerner’s preoccupation with it as one of those goofy cultural quirks they doubt they’ll ever understand.
I would agree with you on changing the difference from merely “looks different” to “looks different AND/OR has a different culture and belief system.”
But I still believe that most humans naturally have prejudice against other humans that are different.
Again, it doesn’t make it right. In fact it’s wrong. But it is.
Obviously Jragon is not Jewish.
Or live in New York… or know more than, say, 3 Jewish people. (I’m honestly clueless here, is that a good thing? I mean, I know there is but I don’t know any.)
Those things are not obvious to me.
With all due respect, the world is better off if people don’t know the terms of hate. I am not about to provide them to you. I am sure your innocence will be destroyed some day but let’s not make it this way - it will be much more spectacular when it happens for real and the lightbulb goes off. But we will all be lesser people when that happens to you.
Fair enough, it was more of a rhetorical question, it is probably good I don’t know any.
Oh, I disagree. I think if we can’t deal with words and use them sensibly then we’re doing something terribly wrong. We’re sensible, yes? We can read words and not want to scurry off and call people them, right? Basically, your statement there reads like the world is better off ignorant. I have faith in the sensibleness of this board.
This site should have plenty, just in case you need to know.
I think I would agree with GameHat, racism is natural to humans. I don’t think it’s going to go away any time soon. Whilst we are all very similar we are, I think, equally different. And people like to focus on the differences.
The easiest way to fit in with one group is by making a show of attacking someone not in the group, so get a bunch of people together and sooner or later someone will mildly slur someone who is excluded and then someone will strongly slur them and then it’s all bedsheets and crosses.
A lot of racism is handed down from parents to children. If you have the misfortune to be born to racist parents, you will hear racist words and opinions. Unfortunately, a lot of children blindly accept what they are told and racism is perpetuated.
I agree - putting things into categories of good/bad, like me/different, mine/not mine, etc, is in general terms, a useful trait - it’s part of the collection of attributes that enabled humans to develop as an intelligent, technology-using species.
But that generally useful tool comes at a price of needing to be applied judiciously - applying the test to itself, really. Racism is (IMO) the default behaviour for humans - but I believe it’s a rut we can think our way out of, individually - and if enough individuals do it, collectively too.
The advantages of discarding racism aren’t necessarily immediate enough for it to happen all on its own in an evolutionary sense, though, so it takes a deliberate effort to do it…
Negativity and violence toward other human beings is part of who we are.
We are animals, after all. We often make the assumption that sentience and intelligence will work hand in glove with evolution to produce nice people, but as it turns out, there’s no guarantee of that. While this particular culture we live in seems to be holding non-violence as a higher good, in the long run those sorts of artificially-constructed values might change.
Built into our behavioural patterns are both narcissim–self interest, let’s say–and altruism. Those behaviours are learned to an extent, but they are also a reflection of our fundamental genetic makeup.
Racism is nothing more than a subcategory of any other tribal response: Me first; my family next; my tribe next; my population next…on it goes. The further one gets on the continuum away from self, the more altruism replaces narcisissm. Categorization into racial cohorts is a short-hand way of creating an “other” group. It is not, of course, the only way to create groups which can then fulfill the fundamental tribal drive.
As a practical matter, it’s irrelevant if the reason I am willing to do violence toward you is your color, your height, your business objectives or the way you sing. Hutus chopping up Tutsis for being Tutsi is in no way different from whites lynching blacks for being black.
There is no basis for the notion that if we see enough hatred, war and blood we will come to reject it. It is lovely rhetoric to say that, but in a couple hundred thousand years of our particular subspecies, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that it is anything but a sappy sentiment.
Which is not to say we should abandon the attempt to work toward building a just and egalitarian society. We just need to recognize such a society will be built in spite of, and not because of, our atavistic tendencies.
You are free to disagree, but I don’t personally know anyone on this board - I am a new poster, but long time lurker, and I don’t know that “we” are sensible. I welcome your evidence, but I am sure there is plenty of counter evidence too in the millions of messages, or frankly in any set of active threads at a given time.
I think you read too much into my message. I told one person I am not providing him with the tools of hate. He (she?) said s/he appreciates that.
I know the hate that is out there, both in slurs and institutions. I live in a medium-sized rural town where I am one of only two Jews that I know of. The other was targeted severely by Aryan white supremacists as I arrived here. Although straight, I stood up very publicly with some brave gay men and women here against Prop 8. Our town voted 85% in favor.
Now my Catholic girlfriend (who is not hateful at all) suggests I can assuage my concern about the Pope’s recent ex-ex communicating of a Holocaust Denier and appointing him as a Bishop by speaking with the local senior Church hierarchy. For the first time in my life, I am treading carefully on the concern I might not really want to take the risks involved in outing myself that way to anyone here.
In general, I agree it would be a good idea to raise the issue with the Church, but there is a real safety issue. I don’t delude myself that the Priest is obligated to keep what I say confidential. Heck, if he couldn’t raise it up the chain of command, then what would be the point of talking to him at all? And if he chose to mention it even obliquely in a homily, well, like I said, 2 candidates does not make for much anonymity.
So excuse me if I don’t feel like teaching Jragon the tools of hate against me and others of my background. If Jragon or anyone else wants the tools of hate, let them actively seek it out rather then have it provided passively.
While I am not sure we are “sensible” I am sure we are all capable of actively grabbing tools of hate with no trouble at all. Since I don’t know how people will use them, I decline to provide weapons indiscriminately (no pun intended).
What makes racism so appealing and enduring is that it’s so easy. It’s much easier to just assign characteristics based on how someone looks than to approach every interaction as a blank slate. And when you’re in a position where things in life are generally really tough, it’s easier just to blame a bunch a group of “other” people. Can’t get a good job? Blame the Mexicans. Property values plummeting? Blame the Jews. Someone steals your car? Blame the blacks. Racism places a recognizable face on intangible problems, and gives you a target to focus your generalized, inexpressable anger at the circumstances of your life that are often beyond your control.
“…approach every interaction as a blank slate…”
Such naivete’ can get you killed.
Are you attempting to make a point of some sort?
Sorry, but you should know. Or else, one of these days you’re going to interrupt a friend watching with interest a movie on TV, by calling him on the phone and asking “I don’t get it. What did the guy say to the main character, and why?
”
I know that because a friend interrupted me less than an hour ago to ask me about the antisemite racial slur used in the movie I was watching.