racisms presence

The very attitudes about racism itself are definitely different here. It’s viewed very differently, as something quite normal. I gave up long ago trying to explain to the otherwise-good people here that racism is not proper. They act like you’re mentally retarded when you get into that. And in full disclosure, I have to admit there have been times when these attitudes have been advantageous to me, as because of my white skin, it’s assumed I’m a good person until I prove otherwise. Back in the US, people might call the cops because this shady-looking bum is in the vicinity, but here, as a farang Westerner), there seems to be a “safe” feeling if I’m around – as long as I’m not forcing anyone to speak English!

I have known dark-skinned people who have had a hard time. Two in particular were Peace Corps Volunteers whom I knew. I met them through friends and saw them occasionally when they were in Bangkok back in the 1980s. One was a 50-ish black lady, rather heavy, who was a jolly old soul. She did not let the local attitudes – which are much heavier upcountry than in metropolitan Bangkok, or at least more noticeable there – get to her at all. She said people in her town would literally stop in the street and gape at her with open mouth. Said she just stopped and stared right back. I believe her outgoing personality eventually won her many friends.

The other Volunteer was a young black male, 20s, fresh out of university I believe. A super nice guy, very bright, but he had a very difficult time. I recall a few drinking sessions when he was pouring out his troubles – Bangkok is a good spot for Peace Corps Volunteers to come have a ripping weekend to get their frustrations out of their system. His co-workers and neighbors were really giving him a hard time, even asking why Peace Corps had to send someone black, didn’t they have someone better, and what did they do to deserve this. Since he was black, they figured they could speak openly in front of him, because if the hilltribes and dark-skinned Thais took it quietly, it must be normal for black Americans, too. I believe he stuck it out for the full two years, but he was in such a downer mood every time I saw him, I think I would have just packed it in and gone home if I’d been him. (I still recall meeting his sister sister who had come to visit; man, she was friggin’ drop-dead gorgeous, I remember that very well. Mmmmm.)

My wife, who does understand racism is wrong, freely admits she was taught while growing up that the darker the skin, the badder the person. Her friends were all taught that, too. All Thais are, and the dark-skinned Thais are mercilessly hounded when they’re growing up. The idea is that dark skin is a punishment for evil deeds in the past life, and there’s a good chance the person is still bad now, due to being pissed off about having dark skin if nothing else. (I’ve often thought this was a partial explananation for all of the animal cruelty here. They have to take their own frustrations out on something! The amount of animal cruelty in Thailand is often shocking to a newcomer, this being a Buddhist country, but I imagine Hell on Earth is being an animal in any Third World country, regardless of the religious stripe.)

Skin-whitening creams are a big industry here. There would probably be street protests in the West if Pond’s and Nivea and all of these other lotion companies marketed there what they market here, the skin-whitening creams. I’ve seen them in other countries in the region, too. This is also why you see laborerrs covered head to toe out in the broiling sun; they don’t want to be any darker than they already are. And the Westerners penchant for the dark-skinned beauties of the Northeast is takne by most Thais as proof positive of the addlemindedness of most farangs; these Thais, who hold the light-skinned beauties of the North as their ideal, cannot understand what the farangs see in these “ugly” women. This is why the bars and brothels that cater to farangs are staffed mostly with northeastern women and why the bars and brothels that cater to the Thais (middle class on up, anyway) and visiting East Asians are staffed largely with northern women.

Too, I have this one American friend here. I’ve reported elsewhere on this Board that he found himself sitting next to a high-level police official at a formal dinner one night. My friend is a connoisseur of Nigerian scam letters, and there being a large number of African scammers in Bangkok, he fell to talking to the police official about that. The cop told him flat out that there was no such thing as a legitimate African businessman, that they were all here for purposes of scamming and they kept a close watch on each one. That last part was no doubt an exaggeration, as they wouldn’t have the manpower to keep tabs on them all – there are a LOT of Africans here – but this coming from someone in authority is very telling. I’m sure there is no “official” policy on the books that you could point to that says “all West Africans are scammers,” but unofficially that seems to be the rule.

This same friend of mine hails from Indiana, from a small town in the southern part of the state. He told me that when he was in elementary school, his teacher freely, and perhaps gleefully, told the class that all Catholics ere going to burn in Hell for all eternity. I don’t know if this still goes on – my friend is middle-aged like I am, so this was awhile back – but if something like that could happen in the American Midwest, can it be so hard to believe that worse happens in the Third World?

Ignorant dudes will always be racist. The only cure for racism is education and enlightenment, and even then- “stupid is as stupid does”.

Look at some of the genocide in Africa- there are tribes that hate and despise each other beyond even the hatred of the KKK toward “uppity niggers”. And yet an average American could not tell the difference bewteen tribesmembers.

What we need to do is make sure racism is not taught, not institutionalized. Those so-called “Moslem schools” that mostly teach that Jews must all die, are one extreme; but even here in the USA we have Southern Apologists.

I went to a “moslem school” myself, and I must have slept through that lesson. Lots of mathematics, sciences, english, history and geography (ZZzzz).

Nevertheless, I believe the most common one is “kike”. I had never heard it, either, before I watched an episode of Law & Order that featured it. (I have heard it since; it’s amazing how you begin to notice things after you’re on the lookout for them.) Wiki says, and I believe this is true, that this comes from Jewish immigrants to New York via Ellis Island who couldn’t write English and signed their names with an “O” (the Yiddish for which is “kikel”) instead of an “X”, because the cross is a symbol of Christianity.

Valete,
Vox Imperatoris

ETA: I missed the post with a reference guide to all of them, but it didn’t actually mention which one was actually most common, so there you go.

As others probably have said already, we have an instinctive suspicion of humans that don’t look like us. Why this evolved I don’t know, but I think it’s common in all animal species.

Given that, we can live beyond our instincts. We’re homo sapiens, “thinking man”, not homo instinctivus (or whatever the Latin is for instinctive. Our thoughts teach us that we have to act towards each unique human according to his or her actions. We have to judge each human as equal to us until he or she deserves otherwise… Some might say that we have to act towards others as we would want others to act towards us, regardless of their actions.

Alas, some humans are trapped in their own fears and anger. They actively seek reasons to be suspicious of others. It’s not limited to other races. This condition of being trapped has been with us forever; I don’t see it changing any time soon.

The wonderful thing is that it’s getting better, at least in some places. Obama was elected president, and the American South went “meh.”

We have a ways to go, even in this country.

I thought we were talking about racism. How is this related? Which “race” is going to kick your ass for looking them in the eyes?


One of the ways we have to go in this country is to quit making such generalizations about regions of the country that are based too often on the Electoral College vote. This map gives you a more realistic picture of the voting in the South (and the rest of the country, but even that is far too broad.

I live in the South and grew up in a liberal family. The home of country music is actually a thriving city about the size of Denver. And we voted for Obama. A lot of people have a different image of Nashville.

Southern apologists? I apologize for teaching only 20 years in the inner city before retiring instead of the usual 30. My neighborhood is multi-multicultural which means that my Kroger is better than your Kroger! I got to see the Iraqis vote for the Iraqi government a few years back.

On Inauguration Day another member of my family and I ended a three year period of silence between us because we decided that it was a good day for peacemaking and putting things in the past and making changes.

I keep tearing up every time I think of the man and the potential for good that he has for this country. My 96 year old mother said that she reads everything that she can about him. I’ve just sent her one of his autobiographies for Valentines Day.

Can you see why I might get frustrated with your comment about the South even though I know that our country, including the South, does have a long way to go?

Hell, I’m going to start capitalizing “the President” again. I don’t care what Harbrace says is correct.

I know he will be far from perfect, but I certainly like his thinkiing.

What was this thread about? Changing our way of thinking?
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2008/

Racism and religion are instilled in the home. It is enforced in the neighborhood and schools. It is not natural .

Umm, why did you quote **633squadron ** and attribute it to me?

I have a fresh example. There’s a New Zealander who writes a good weekly Internet column under the name of Stickman. This week, he mentions an Indian Sikh who was visiting Pattaya. Note that he was refused entry to “at least” two other bars before this one:

“The poor old Indians get a bad name in Thailand and the Thais just love to rag on them. The problem the Thais seem to have is that the Indians are rather successful in business – and I think this breeds much jealousy amongst the locals. The Indians are also said to be keeneow, or cheap, an insult that Thais use rather liberally and often in a manipulative way when they are not the recipient of something free, often unearned. Anyway, a certain not particularly attractive lass – and that is being kind – in a big name bar just off Walking Street was approached by an Indian customer, a Sikh, this week. The Indian had just been refused entry into at least two other bars and ended up in this particular bar where he found a lady to his liking and yes, she was willing to be barfined. She was not seen in the bar for three days and some of her colleagues were getting a bit worried. What had the Indian done to her? Where had she gone? She turned up in the bar three nights later with a huge grin on her face. It turns out that the Indian presented her with 50,000 baht to compensate her for the three days of her time. Are Indians really keeneow?!”

Note: At the present exchange rate of 35 baht to the US dollar, 50,000 baht = US$1429. This also sort of goes in hand with the “No Muslims Served Here” sign in your other thread. Sikhs are not Muslims, of course, but that’s a petty distinction here.

Definitive cite?

I have a fresh local example. Gulliver’s, located in Sukhumvit Soi 5 – this is NOT a girlie bar, but rather a large restaurant-bar targeted at tourists and local expat and Thais, although some freelance girls do hang out here – have instituted a 200-baht (US$5.71) entry charge for black Africans. Everyone else walks in free. Reportedly, if you have ID that shows you are black but not from Africa, say the US or the UK, then the entry fee is waived for you, too.

They want to discourage black Africans, so maybe this example is more continentalism than racism? Except not all Africans are black. This place is located right on the edge of the main area where tourists from the Middle East and Africa tend to stay. Reportedly, Africans have been frequenting Gulliver’s in increasing numbers, changing the mood somewhat, and management intends to do something about it. It’s a huge place with okay food. Lots of big video screens throughout showing sports. The original Gulliver’s is on the corner of Khao San Road and a backpacker’s hangout. This one opened a few years ago, and they spent a lot of money on it, $5 million if I remember correctly. I’ve not been in for a long time, because while nice, I’ve never found it worth going out of my way for.