Raising Sons v. Raising Daughters

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m curious about this - I have boy/girl twins who’ll turn 5 in February, and it’s so interesting to see how different their needs are. But I never know if what I’m witnessing is differences between individuals or something gender-linked.

It seems to me that my son needs more strength from me than my daughter requires. He wants firm rules, he needs to know for sure that I AM in charge.

Litioris’s thread about training dogs brought this to mind - it feels like my son is more of a puppy who needs to be taught his place in the “pack”. Whereas my daughter is more of a cat, determined to find her own way through devious means if necessary. She tells lies. My son doesn’t.

:stuck_out_tongue: I hope those descriptions don’t sound uncharitable - they’re wonderful children and I enjoy them mightily; I think they’re the smartest, cutest, sweetest kids on the planet.

I’m just always searching for ways of understanding them, and myself as “mom”. It’s endlessly fascinating.

2

I don’t see anything wrong with trying to think that through, or with acknowledging that kids are different, whether due to gender or genes.

A few months after we had a daughter to go with our son and a daughter, I was struck by the thought “whoever thinks the gender are the same - that stereotypical gender behaviors are socialized in, but not inherent - are kidding themselves.” The genders tend to start out with fundamental differences (please note - I in NO WAY advocate treating boys and girls differently; both should be given every opportunity in life and encouraged to believe they can do anything they set their minds to) - so it makes sense to factor that in.

I use the “boys are dogs, girls are cats” analogy, too. There are different structures and approaches that get used - both have the same arsenal, but emphasize different things…

3

I have 2 girls (5 and 3 - have pity in 10 yrs or less), and they are, though they love each other, as different as they could be - almost as if they were opposite genders… other than pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, pink, …

4

Your son needs to know who is in charge. Your daughter needs to know she can fool people and thereby be “better” than them.

I would chalk that up to individual characteristics more than gender, but your daughter’s traits suggest strongly that she’s insecure in a way that will take a more nurturing approach to fix.

5

I dunno - I just think she wants to have her way. Same as him.

It’s so funny, the differences between kids and parents. I’m all hand-wringy “Am I doing the right thing? How do I raise these kids? Where are the healthy boundaries? What are realistic expectations?” Zig-zagging all over the place in an effort to do this Right.

Meanwhile, they’re torpedoes “I want I want I want I want”.

:smiley: Good times, good times.

I guess I set off alarm bells for you - maybe I should give an example. I present both children with a healthy snack to eat in the car as we run errands. We going to the grocery store and they each want to pick out a snack food (chips, usually) when we get there. OK, fine, yes - but only if they ate their healthy snack. He’s scrupulous about telling me how many apple slices he’s eating as we’re driving along. When we get there, she tells me she’s finished hers. So (because I know this girl) I ask to see the bag - she takes a minute to dump her slices on the car floor and then shows me the empty bag.

Jah, no snack for the girlchild that day. :slight_smile:

6

I don’t have kids, but I’ve been fairly involved with close friends’ children over the last few years.

I’ve been absolutely astounded at the boy/girl differences. I mean, I knew that some differences tended to be gender-determinate, but wow. It’s amazing how early it starts. By two, the boys were already acting like boys in many ways (favorite activity: go outside and whack on any and every thing with sticks), while the girls acted like girls (very social, much less rough-and-tumble).

Of course, there are definitely some differences that are just individual personalities.

My sister is still trying to come to terms with having a very girlie-girl child. Sis would have loved to have a boy and been much more comfortable dealing with that. So what did she get? A little girl who, by three, loved everything pink and fluffy, loved to dress up, primp and preen, etc. And just keeps getting moreso. :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s all being raised by people who are definitely not enforcing stereotypical gender roles. It’s weird, I tell ya.

7

Another factor could be how you are interpreting their behavior.

Like when female anthropologists first started observing apes, they began to describe their interactions in whole new ways. It turned out that both male and female scientists were filtering the ape’s actions through their expectations and coming up with completely different interpretations of the same behavior.

8

We raised two boys and I’m now watching our oldest son and his wife raise their daughter. So far, she’s not that much different from the way her father was at that age. Having gone through the child-raising experience with my siblings and in-laws, with about a 50-50 mixture of boys and girls, I go along with the theory that gender traits are part-nature, part-nurture.

I do think girls are (1) guided into what our society thinks of as traditional female roles and (2) somewhat attracted to those roles.

Based on the 13 boys and 12 girls our tribe has raised over the past 30 years, it appears to me that fessie’s description of his/her son and daughter so far are right on target. I would only suggest that the boy hasn’t yet learned the value of prevarication, but his sister will teach him. In my admittedly limited experience, boys seem to know very early on that they can win the things they want through physical prowess (competition, teamwork, strength, etc.) while girls naturally rely on emotional appeal (salesmanship, guile, beauty, etc.) Of course, kids are just as smart as anyone else, and all quickly learn to develop for themselves the attributes they see other people using to be successful.

One thing about a child’s mind – it is a sponge that soaks up the world around it.

9

Thanks for sharing. :slight_smile:

10

I guess what I want to say is, if the actions were reversed, could you still come up with a credible explanation that fit your theory?

Sure you could. If it was the boy who chucked his apples, you could say he was testing his boundaries and asserting dominance, in the way that boys are wont to do. And if the girl counted her slices, you could say that she was being concerned with appearing to do the right thing and seeking social reassurance, like a girl would.

As with anything related to evolutionary psychology, I think a lot of this tautological. When you begin with the actions and then come up with the explanation, of course the actions are always going to fit the explanations. There is no other way it could be.

A good test is to do the “switch roles, see if you can make it fit” thing. If you honestly can’t, maybe you are on to something. But if you can, it’s pretty likely that your conclusions are already drawn and you are skewing the evidence to fit them.

11

I have a 5-year-old boy and a 2-year-old girl. I agree, it’s very difficult to tell how much of their actions is due to gender and how much is just their personality.

One of the interesting things I have found is that I have gender biases. I find myself telling my daughter how pretty she is. When my son wants to have purple Disney mouse ears, I tell him no because purple is a “girl’s color”. I try my best to be gender-neutral, but it’s really hard! You’d think since I am a female who has a degree in engineering and has worked in a very male-dominated field I would be better about that!

12

I ask this only half in jest: What color would you want your mouse ears to be?

13

Me too except it’s my younger son and his wife raising a daughter. She’s 16 months old and I’m not seeing lots of differences yet but know that may well change.

I completely agree; it’s one of the reasons I tell every girl I meet that she will be good in math and science. I am actually good at both subjects but didn’t realize it until I was in college in my early 30s. I would have benefited a LOT from someone telling me that.

14

That’s a good point, even sven. I think it’s like WordMan said, they both engage in the full range of behaviors, it’s their manner that’s different. If my son had chucked his apples, he’d’ve been blatant about it. He’s blatant about everything, all of his motions and emotions are big.

If she was going to seek approval on the apple issue, she would’ve used eye contact and tone of voice to work the cute.

It’s interesting to watch how they manipulate us - she’s one to be coy and flirtatious, while he hits and has fits when he doesn’t get his way. It started when they were infants. He crawled before she did, so he’d wiggle over to steal toys. She learned quickly to give him something else as a distraction in order to get back the toy she wanted.

And the funny thing is, I didn’t expect any of this, really. My husband and I both share gender roles - he’s a better cook than I am (and more domestic in general); I’m the one who’s always taken the car in for repairs and frets over money. My daughter’s more interested in makeup than I am, even at this point, I’m not “girly” at all.

15

Ah, but even at their young age, they are influenced by much more than just you and your husband. Day care? Television? Other adults and other children? Certainly, you and your husband are the primary influence, but at those points where you don’t actively oppose or contradict social influence, they make their own choices. Your daughter probably (this is just a guess) sees other females (older girls and women) using makeup, identifies herself as part of that group, and she has a natural desire to be like others in that group. It would be interesting to know what her interest would be if you were overtly and actively opposed to makeup (made negative remarks about women who wear makeup, actually told her it was wrong and gave her good reason to believe this, etc.) I think children want to be like what they see their parents actively being (I’m talking about what society considers “good parents” here) but, absent active opposition from a respected parent, children will develop interests they don’t necessarily share with their parents. Now that I think about it, I saw my father actively enjoying hunting, camping, working in the yard, and so on, and I wanted to be like him, so I developed those interest, too. I never saw my father engaged in any sports activity, but I did see other boys playing baseball, and I wanted to play baseball, too. My father didn’t oppose it, so I played baseball.

16

Well, traditionally they are black, but I try to pick out a different style/color for my son and daughter each time we go to Disneyland. So this time I got purple for my daughter and yellow for my son. He really wanted the purple ones but I had already gotten them embroidered with their names. :smack: Next time I am letting him pick out his own mouse ears and if he wants purple ones he can have them!

17

The problem with your comparison to the examination of apes by female scientists is that the difference between boys and girls is reported by men ***and ***women. My wife was just as amazed at our daughter’s “Girliness,” for want of a better word, as I was, and we made no effort to iompose gender roles on her and don’t split up household duties along gender lines. This sort of thing will be reported by almost anyone who encounters babies and young children; I’ve had the Small One’s day care workers, throughout all her classes, tell me how amazingly different the boys and girls are.

I don’t doubt some of it’s environmental, but you have to believe me, some of it’s genetic. The differences are quite remarkable.

18

It’s funny - I have two boys, ages 5 and 2.5. They exhibit the same personality differences that your kids do - with the oldest being more like your son and the youngest being more like your daughter - and I attribute it to birth order. My oldest is a rules guy, needing to know his boundaries and very focused on being good at following the rules. He has never, not once, stepped onto a road without holding my hand, because the rule is that you hold hands in the road. My youngest, on the other hand, thinks rules are just opportunities to practice his charm. If you scold him or put him in timeout, he gives you his biggest grin and covers you in kisses and hugs.

Our family was in the car the other day and this conversation took place between the two boys:
Oldest: Stoooooop! You have to follow the ruuuuuuules!!!
Youngest: No, thanks! :grin:
My husband and I looked at each other and both said, “That about sums it up!”

19

I have one of each: 10 year old son and 9 year old daughter. They really might as well be twins: they’re in the same grade and love the same things. I tend to say they are twins with a really mean streak: instead of coming at the same time, they dragged the whole process over 18 months.

Our son is very sweet, kind and considerate. He needs a lot of attention from me: lots of hugs, talks, help with homework, etc. He can also belch on command. At that point, I go to his dad and say, “Do you know what YOUR son did???” He is artistic, and tends to express himself through his art. He is also very descriptive. When he needs to tell me about something, he’ll describe it instead of calling it by it’s name.

Our daughter is an angel. She is very independent: she does her own homework with very little supervision, and she likes to do things her own way. But she does love to spend time with me, even if it’s just the two of us playing on Game Boys at the same time. They both love computers, but she is more of a geek in training.

20

I have no children but the rule of thumb I’ve heard on gender differences is about adolescents: girls rebel against their mother and boys rebel against their father.