Ironic the criticism coming from you. amusing also.
Yes he makes hand waving that their are the Good Muslims like the Good Negros, but the Islam is a Bad Religion (“a bad religion”). It is a familiar rhetorical device.
I am comfortable with my integrity and my intelligence in not viewing the statements as being more than a thin clothing.
I am even sure he has muslim friends.
The soviets, in their nasty history had a phrase for the persons naive who believed easily disguising discourses used to cover, ‘the useful idiots.’
It remains of amusement that you continue the ideological tribal responses habits.
Whilst I have no stick in this pudding, it is evident that the robotic dullness of your anti-robotic declarations would be minimally relieved by the insertion of a timely comma or two.
There are bulk discounts on punctuation currently available on eBay.
Not to interrupt the Pit, but I think there may be a disconnect here. I don’t consider beliefs to have any existence at all outside of people’s noggins. If you criticize a belief system, you are implicitly criticizing those who hold that belief system.
Which is perfectly fine to do. I’ll criticize white supremacists all the livelong day.
The problem is that a belief system like “Islam” is not a belief system at all. It’s at minimum dozens of different, more-or-less-related belief systems. The belief system in the noggin of a middle-class feminist Muslim in Santa Barbara is going to be extremely different from the belief system in the head of an ISIS thug. Discussing “Islam” as a whole is borderline incoherent. The few elements the two belief systems share in common are not the elements that are repugnant.
The “chosen people” phrase doesn’t mean that “We are superior”. It’s more of a “we were chosen to accomplish this particular mission or task”, type of thing.
If you’re going to criticize something, at least get it right and know what you’re talking about.
While the phrase “chosen people” is obviously open to interpretation, my contention is that all interpretations are harmful, to greater or lesser degrees. In its most literal sense, the phrase does confer a certain superiority, and this is substantiated by various passages in the Torah, most notably in Deuteronomy 7:6
“For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.”
However, this is, as you imply, a minority opinion. Most Jews hold that the phrase “chosen people” means “chosen for a purpose” and doesn’t imply Jewish superiority. This also has significant textual support, particularly Amos 3:2 "“You alone have I singled out of all the families of the earth—that is why I will call you to account for your iniquities” and Exodus 19:5 “'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine;”
The crux of the matter, as I see it, is that, whichever interpretation you favour, both facilitate self-segregation to one extent or another. I take it as axiomatic that any tendency towards self-segregation by any group in any society can only lead to resentment against that group. A cursory glance through the history of the Jews in Europe reveals numerous instances of this actually occurring. Of course, the blame for mistreatment of the Jews falls squarely on those who mistreated them, and they might well have done it anyway, but the doctrine of the “chosen people” undoubtedly gave the anti-semites of the middle-ages more ammunition than they would otherwise have had.
The same could be said about Christianity, a religion which is far less harsh, unforgiving, punitive, misogynist and homophobic than Islam is in general, yet the left in this country seems far more critical, condemning and insulting of and toward Christianity, up to and including efforts to remove it as much as possible from public view. This is both confusing and amusing to those of us on the right who are constantly bombarded with liberal outrage over homophobia and misogyny. Why does Islam get a pass but Christianity doesn’t?
So in your view, is there any way to criticize only those repugnant beliefs, and the believers who hold them, that won’t be countered with sarcastic sneering about “Good Muslims” and “Good Negroes”?
Absolutely. I criticize the death cult that’s infested some sectors of Islam all the time. I don’t think that’s a problem. Talk about the subset of Muslims that holds the repugnant views, and I’m cool with you.
Might others sneer about “Good Muslims”? Sure. Others might be assholes. If you’re being precise and accurate in what you say, you’re in the clear from non-assholes.
If I may be full of shit a moment longer, permit me to ask also why one never hears anyone on the left champion drilling down and criticizing only the repugnant Christians, conservatives, Republicans and old white guys and giving the good ones a pass? As far as I can tell broad brush condemnation is the order of the day when it comes to these groups.
So, if one were to go back through your posts on this message board, and compare how often you complain about the treatment of Christians in American society, and compared it to how often you compare about the treatment of Christians in, say, China, do you one would find more complaints about the treatment of Christians in America, than in China? And yet, by any conceivable yardstick, Christians are treated vastly better here, then they are over there.
This is, of course, completely understandable. You probably don’t know any Christians who live in China. And you probably know lots and lots of Christians who live in America - you might even be one yourself. So the treatment of Christians in America gets more notice from you, despite being objectively better, because it has more of an impact on you personally, or (if you’re not a Christian) people you know.
So, all that being said - how many gay people do you think I know personally, who live in Saudi Arabia?
I understand your point, that people are more likely to react more strongly to things that hit close to home. But still, given that the left in America is so passionate about issues like homosexuality and misogyny and so full of ire and intolerance even toward those who are benign about those issues, let alone those who are opposed or unconvinced, the logical conclusion seems to me to be that the left would be driven to oppose even harder those who adopt an even harder and often physically punitive approach to women’s rights and homosexuality, even if most proponents of the latter live in countries far away. Unlike my considerable ignorance of the lot of Christians in China, Islamic attitudes toward women (and girls, and female children) and homosexuals are well-known. If I didn’t know better I would have expected that America’s left would be more riled up and in even stronger opposition to Islam and its practices than those of us on the right.
I do appreciate the insight however. While I obviously don’t agree with the sentiment at least the question of ‘why’ has been answered to my satisfaction.
Because oneisdeafasafuckinpost, would be my guess. Seriously, if you’re so wrapped up in your execrable pseudomartyrdom that you don’t know about the shit-tons of leftists who are also Christians–and the shit-tons of atheists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Pagans who are leftists and friends with these Christians–you’re even dumber than I thought, which until now I considered mathematically impossible.
Tell you what: whip up frenzy against right-wing Christians such that it’s used as part of a campaign to justify a massive war against another country, and see what leftists do. You might find that when Christians are facing a level of persecution from our government similar to what Muslims are facing, leftists may hesitate to feed into the warmonger’s narrative.
Yes, there are shit-tons of all these people. And they’re largely silent while those of your ilk insult and battle Christianity. I suspect also that among those who don’t join in on the battle to restrict Christianity and its symbols and hide them away behind closed doors, are a considerable number who nonetheless come riding to the defense of Islam whenever the opportunity should arise.
You’re SO FUCKIN FULL OF SHIT! What do you mean they’re silent? I just cited you figures from the head of my state’s NAACP, to one of the prime movers and shakers in bringing SSM lawsuits in the South, to the president of the United Fucking States of America. And you think that anti-Christian leftists are louder than them?
Ah, so it’s all in service to avoiding a new war? Well then why not just say so, rather than run around accusing everyone who’s rightfully opposed to Islam and its treatment of women and homosexuals of hating brown people being evil bigots? There was much to fear from Communism and there’s much to fear now from Islam, and yet the only foreign ideology the left seems to be able to find it in its heart to revile is Facism. Many, many more people - as in millions and millions and millions - have suffered and died horrible deaths as a result of both Communism and Islam in the last century than ever happened under Facism. So in my opinion if you want to lobby against war, at least do it honestly. Otherwise you just appear mysteriously hypocritical.