Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
Ok, I agree with that sentiment 100% and I live in NY, do I get a cookie?
I’ll take my chances instead of being some pussy cowering in fear from these assholes. Searching bags only provides the illusion of safety while in reality inconveniencing the hell out of me, and millions of others.
Yes you get a cookie because you live in the “trenches” here. I respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. I don’t see how letting a cop look in your knapsack is equal to “cowering in fear”. Staying home is cowering in fear.
I would never advocate that. We should go about our business.
I just get all ticked off at people who live far from the danger zone who throw around “principles” and dismiss the realities.
So, you acknowledge that there is a good chance of a terrorist attack in the NYC subway, but since the likelihood that it will kill you or someone you know is low, it’s an acceptable risk?
Not to put words in your mouth but that’s the conclusion of the two statements.
This is how the world ends
not with a bang but a whimper.
- T.S. Eliot
The “trenches”? While I’ll be the first to admit that New York is one of several likely targets of potential terrorism, I don’t think it’s the only possibility.
I’m not sure why Portland is any less of a potential target than say an Oklahoma City.
PTSD continues to raise its ugly head.
Honestly, if I was a terrorist, I don’t think I’d have the NY subway on the top of the list if I wanted to hit mass transit. I think Washington wouldn’t be a bad target, though actually I’d think really hard about hitting Chicago. Think about it. A bomb for each line detonated inside the Loop and you have massively screwed up everything in the downtown area of a major American city. Leave one on the blue and orange lines long enough and you have probably just successfully shut down both O’Hare and Midway for a while. Yes, the stop at O’Hare is deep underground from the terminal and the stop at Midway is not incredibly close, but do you think they would keep operations going after a couple bombs like that? Not to mention that it’s in the Midwest, which might get more of a reaction from us here in flyover country than another hit on the more obvious targets like NYC and DC.
As for this random stuff, I don’t see how it could help.
Sure. Then again, so is searching just one person a day. For everyone’s convenience they can even make it the same guy every day.
Or, as an even better panacea, have them search the same actor every day. The actor can be all beligerant about it and by the end of it be screaming about Allah. Everyone will be thrilled - a terrorist caught every day!
I forsee the day when half of our country’s money is spent on absurdly expensive health care and the other half is spent on security forces who will stand around searching each other all day.
-Joe
Yes, they have.
You see, in order to arrest someone, there must be probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. Carrying around large quantities of cash, sex appliances, or books on someone’s watch list is not a crime.
Next silly question?
Here’s the deal, the rush hour subway car is the most crowded place you are likely to be in your entire life. People are stacked up like sardines and trapped inside the car. The only place it is more dangerous to put a moderately sized bomb is inside a flying airliner, and many of those hold fewer people than a single subway car.
You’re not going to kill 100 people in a food court or a restaurant unless you have a truly massive bomb. Other places like office buildings, stadiums, clubs, etc already have security checking shit like that. The subway is a place where you can freely go shoulder to shoulder with a couple of hundred people trapped in a tin can with you, and nobody will question the suitcase you’re dragging along. There have already been multiple terrorist attacks centering on mass transit, killing a pretty sizable number of people.
It’s one thing to go off the deep end with security, but the terrorists have fucking well proven their ability to attack and kill hundreds on crowded commuter trains. So, the city that was the target of the largest terrorist attack in history steps up security in the area where the terrorists have been attacking most recently and effectively, and you think it’s unreasonable?
That’s not incrementally better. That’s infinitesimally better.
And this is my point. One wouldn’t have to be Osama himself to pull it off. I think that even the New Yorkers arguing the other side would agree that an amateur could currently pull it off. I’m pretty sure I could kill hundreds in the subway tomorrow if I wanted to.
So, if the plan only knocks out the amateurs, then that’s a huge improvement.
Have they promised not to unnecessarily delay, harass, or publically humiliate people carrying large quantities of cash, sex appliances, or books on someone’s watch list?
Have they promised not to use the findings of their searches to develop probable cause against people who are not carrying bombs?
Those are legitimate concerns.
Cop finds AK-47, guy gets arrested and hauled in.
Cop finds personal quantities of pot, guy gets an amused look from the cop and gets to go on with his day (and his pot).
Cop finds large quantities of crack…well…what should the cop do?
I say, if you don’t like the idea of searches there are options:
- no backpacks, packages, boxes, briefcases, duffelbags, strollers, grocery bags, etc. on public transportation. If it doesnt’ fit in your pocket, you can’t bring it.
- no bulky or baggy clothes on public transportation. This keeps people from wearing the bomb undetected. This should also include no blankets wrapped around babies and no heavy coats, even in winter.
- no shoes or boots. Everyone boarding a train or bus will wear little stockings only.
- no large hairdos or bulky hats that could hide any explosives or weapons.
- no casts, braces, canes, crutches, oxygen tanks, etc as they could also be used to hide weapons or bombs.
- no beverage or food items since you could really be carrying explosives in a thermal mug.
Would those rules make you feel more free?
Or you could use your precious freedom to feel free to walk, bike, or drive to work. You don’t have to take public transportation if the rules they impose are too much of an impingement on your liberties. You can also feel free to move closer to your place of work or get a job closer to your home. Or you can even feel free to move to rural Minnesota where you can live undisturbed in a cabin in the woods. Yes, this country was founded on freedom, but it works both ways. The founding fathers didn’t say ‘we want no taxes and no rules from the king, but we want army and navy protection from the French and Natives’ they said but out and we will take care of ourselves.
I don’t forsee my little metro system searching people, but if they did, I’d unzip my backpack and show 'em whatever they wanted to see. Even if the searches don’t deter terrorists, they may very well deter some random kid from carrying around a gun and looking for a reason to use it.
Hey you dumb-ass shit, they find people with guns all the time on the train. I’ve even witnessed it. Without useless random searches. If you think with your brain instead of your pussy, you’d see how vanishingly unlikely this measure will be. There are 42 million riders of the NYC subway weekly. And you really believe that randomly searching a few thousand is going to find a terrorist? Especially one that knows there will be random searches. You must think the terrorist are as stupid as you are.
I am happily surprised to see so many people defending the move. If we didn’t police the subways and a bomb did go off, all the same complainers would then cry, "Why the hell didn’t we police the subways more when it just happened twice in London! " Aren’t you the same people bitching about how many other places aren’t being protected? Why must you assume that every attempt by the government to extend its power is some sort of Big Brother conspiracy?
I’m not trading in any liberty at all. I’m happy to do it and happy to cooperate because it serves a good cause. Kudos to FiveYearLurker for recognizing that life just ain’t perfect. I’d like to think that if I was of Middle Eastern descent that I would understand why the police would single me out for search. I for one think they should racial profile. No fuckheads, not all middle eastern-looking people are terrorists, but most terrorists to date have been middle-eastern. You do the math.
Just one.
The rest are continued due diligence.
Not really, as it’s not particularly wide. If my explosive device had fatality radius of say 30 feet, I’d take a lot more people with me in many other places, such as a waiting queue at a busy amusement park ride.
There were four different bombs set off in London a few weeks ago, and no where near 100 people were killed. Once again, there are plenty of effective places if a body count is your goal.
I work in an 18 story office building in one of the largest cities in America, and other than the security guard/greeter at the front desk, who has probably never performed (and probably doesn’t have the permissions to if they wanted to) a search in their careers, there is nothing to stop me from wheeling in a very large box with anything I wanted to haul in. I’ve also been a DJ at numerous clubs, none of which allowed the folks manning the door to do any sort of search for explosive devices. While I do understand that it’s supposed to have changed at stadiums, I go to a number of football games, including the Orange Bowl this year, and saw not a single person searched.
Which makes it no different than many other places that I listed. You can carry a giant stuffed animal through a crowded midway, and nobody is going to question whether it is stuffed with foam or explosives.
And there have been attacks on night clubs, food courts, office buildings, etc, killing a pretty sizable number of people.
If you keep securing the targets after they have been hit, you’re going to have a hard time stopping anything.