From the “you can’t make this kind of shit up” department
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904279004576527470755113128.html
** In choosing the spots, the inspectors were warned to stay away from areas such as drains, shrubbery and rainspouts, where radioactive elements tend to gather, potentially skewing results**
Oh fuck yeah. Be sure and stay away from the areas where Cesium would accumulate. It might be fucking dangerous.
That’s a perfectly legitimate instruction for this kind of experiment. The intent is to work out the average background radiation level and then consider the exposure level over time.
You are going to want to avoid having your readings skewed by hotspots.
Obviously if you believed that hot spots could make a significant impact on overall exposure you’d want to make sure you were still considering that possibility, but it’s also reasonable to conclude that most people aren’t going to spend much time hiding in shrubbery or under drain spouts.
I’ve no clue how you are getting the suggestion that the samplers were told to stay away from those area for their own safety, it explicitly indicates that the intent is to avoid skewing results.
There is nothing in that paragraph that isn’t compatible with good experimental technique considering their stated objective.
If the hot spots were much more radioactive than other locations you’d probably want some discussion of that, but nothing in that paragraph suggests that hasn’t happened.
I think the point is that most people wouldn’t want to live somewhere that inspectors need to avoid certain areas in order to not find dangerous levels of radiation. If the “hot-spots” reach a level that is unsafe then I would consider the property as a whole unsafe for my family. Is that really ignorant?
That’s certainly one point. Then there is the lack of data on an area. So it is simply known what the radiation levels actually are, in different areas of both a town, as well as individual homes, parks, schools, shops and offices.
Not taking a measurement is absurd. Just go ahead and note the actual levels and throw out the extreme readings when you publish, assuring everyone it is safe.
If a drainage area has 2000 mSv/yr just don’t publish that information.
Assuming that someone has determined a safe level of exposure, and you are wanting to determine whether an area is at that level, you are going to be wanting to estimate typical exposure, not maximum possible.
Obviously if there is the potential for people to recieve significantly more radiation if they happen to weed their garden, then that needs to be considered, and I acknowledged that. That doesn’t change the fact that there is absolutely nothing unacceptable in the quoted paragraph, nothing that woukd suggest that this consideration of the effects of hotspots hasn’t been made, and t doesn’t change the fact that you blatantly misrepresented it’s meaning.
Well, they seem to be looking at the outdoors environment. If they are taking a doorstep and yard sample from each home. they should get a good number of samples and assuming the “yard” sample represents grass, then I’d imagine that this would give a reasonable indication of maximum levels you could expect people to be exposed to for extended periods outdoors (I’m not a nuclear cleanup expert, obviously)
Honestly, most people are terrible at understanding risk, if you are trying to figure out exposure levels, you need to try and estimate actual exposure levels. If you assume that people are going to be exposed to the maximum possible level all the time you are throwing away your ability to properly estimate actual risk based on our current knowledge, which is kind of the point. You also risk your bad information endangering more people further down the road when they, for example, investigate outcomes of people exposed to your inflated radiation estimates, and then conclude that radiation is less dangerous than they thought.
This is all beside my point, you completely misrepresented the paragraph you quoted, there is nothing at all in there that suggests improper conduct.
The officials at Stetson University might deserve to be slapped in this case.
Images and explanation of the structures they are building to cover the ruins of the reactors at Fukushima.
They come right out and say it is to contain further releases of “radioactive particles”. Meanwhile nuclear dingbats still think containment wasn’t breached.
Oh, and Japan is done with nuclear power. It’s over.
(bolding mine)
The moronic self pwnage of that statement just seems to whizz over the collective heads. I tried to ignore it, mock it, maybe do some bitchslapping and laugh about it, but like a grain of sand in the crotch you just want to get it out of there.
Then you realize it might actually be cancer and it needs to be examined, but one can not easily take a look at a speck hanging near one’s own anal orifice, or blind spot if you will.
An average exposure would be taking all the readings, the low ones where things are washed clean by the rain, and the high ones where water collected, or plants have bio accumulated cesium (and perhaps other radioactive particles, but nobodies measuring them at all of course).
See? You take all readings, then you average them, that’s how you get an “average reading”. You don’t take just the low ones and average them. That is how you skew results. And deceive people.
Sarcasm, irony, even outright mockery, newclears are immune to it all. Unlike a thick steel containment building, nothing can get in or out of the newclears belief system.
Sounds short-sighted to me. If they follow-through on this, I wish them good luck.
Actually you are almost correct here, in that I was incorrect to say that the intent was to find the average background level. The intent was to figure out the radiation levels that people would be exposed to, these aren’t the same things here, because human beings don’t move randomly around when they are outside.
People don’t typically spend their time in flowerbeds or under gutters. If you were gathering samples you would give specific instructions as to how those samples were to be taken, especially given that when people do things wrong in this situation they tend to do things consistently wrong.
I explicitly acknowledged, however, that you would want to take hotspots into account. Your cite is a second hand account of a single procedure, there is no possible way that you can make any conclusion at all about whether they did.
This isn’t my field, but if I was running a study on this I would do extensive experimentation as to the level of hotspot that could be produced and the circumstances that they could occur, and I would carefully consider what circumstances this could influence dosages received. I would not do this by sending sample takers to each address. “take sample in the centre of yard” is a much more straightforward instructions than “take a hotspot sample”.
The stupid thing here FX, is that there is some stuff that I agree with you about. This whole disaster has been a colossal fuck-up from start to finish. The Japanese government has less than honest, and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see more lies still to come.
The tragic thing is FX, that if they are lying it’s people like you that are the driving force in the justications for cover ups and if there is an argument here against nuclear power, it’s people like you that are merrily poisoning it.
Every time I look into this thread I see you linking crap, blatantly misrepresenting stuff, and making vicious attacks against anyone who happens to disagree with you. Occasionally you will link something that might be of genuine interest and no bugger is going to read it because you have fatally compromised your own arguments.
If you want to convince people that you have a case, you want them to stick around and listen to you, not scream at them like a deranged gibbon until they go away. And every single time you link bad data, or refuse to acknowledge a strong argument, or comically misinterpret stuff, then you do nothing but justify the other peoples assumption that you are wrong about *everything
*
There are no sides.
Nobody wins an argument, everybody wins a debate.
Sadly, a moronic stream of opinion, with no links, nothing at all scientific to base it on, not a single article, no stories, no real logic, a stream of that intestinal waste is often applauded here, like it is golden.
I certainly started out with my real concerns over the disaster as it was happening, commenting on the obvious bullshit of no measurements, no real coverage of the stories, no images of CNN reporters measuring radiation, nothing but nuclear pro spin from all the major media outlets, not even FOX was playing up any panic or real concern over it as it happened.
Not a single news agency even tried to paint the worst case scenario, much less spread any panic over it.
Believe me I watched, and if anyone had been beating the panic drum I would have slapped them down as hard as I did the idiots saying no matter what it couldn’t be bad.
I was insulted over my sarcasm, ignored when I linked to the Union of Concerned Scientist, Gunderson or any Japanese source of real information about the dangers. Even the obvious logical argument was buried under a shit ton of “coal is more dangerous” bullshit, which the crowd seemed to think was some sort of mantra to soothe our fears.
So fuck it, bitchslapping and ranting seemed the only sane choice when surrounded by monkeys flinging their own excrement and sucking each others cocks over how awesome it was. Their shit flinging, not Fukushima.
You can see even the remnants of any thread about the biggest fucking DISASTER in modern history are locked, the newclears gone silent, certainly reporting every post, hoping for a Mod to close this thread and warn no new threads about it.
Which is ratshit fucking crazy of course. But it certainly could happen.
It must be fucking embarrassing as hell to go back and read your insipid commentary that you wrote during the actual disaster as it happened.
Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. That fucking ship sailed.
Now if you didn’t knee jerk react and try and defend nuclear reactors, the governments, the media and you expressed real concern over a serious as it gets problem, ignore all the above. I’m not talking to you of course.
Have an interesting link
It’s about why neutrons are suspected to be happening somewhere in the rubble. Or something like that.
Fuck, the edit timer ran out.
The previous link seems to be about this. It’s not as simple as it seems.
http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/yournews/46920
[quote=enigmatic;14228731
If you want to convince people that you have a case, you want them to stick around and listen to you, not scream at them like a deranged gibbon until they go away. And every single time you link bad data, or refuse to acknowledge a strong argument, or comically misinterpret stuff, then you do nothing but justify the other peoples assumption that you are wrong about *everything
*
There are no sides.
Nobody wins an argument, everybody wins a debate.[/quote]
Debating about a disaster, especially one that the facts won’t be available for possibly decades, if even then, is sort of a lost cause. It’s also mental masturbation to imagine our conversations/debates will alter decisions about power generation, nuclear plants, safety issues, all the myriad and complex things involved in giant as fuck nuclear complexes with 10 reactors of various designs, all sitting in an earthquake prone region of the world.
However, in the never ending quest to understand nuclear issues, it seems thorium reactors were not “abandoned” because of safety issues, or even cost. They were never built, or even really explored in the past because they don’t produce plutonium.
Just as the anti-nuclear activists, concerned scientists and others claimed back in the nuclear heyday, reactors were about producing material for bombs, not for safe clean power generation. Which is why there isn’t a single thorium reactor producing electricity right now.
Thorium reactors can also burn up plutonium, (as was no doubt mentioned already somewhere), and thorium is cheap and abundant.
That China is actually going forward with thorium (unlike France) to provide power, is perhaps a bright spot in it all. But, it’s still not cheap, which as we know, means it won’t happen until we all choke to death on coal dust.
The French nuclear safety body says an explosion has rocked a nuclear plant in southern France, the Associated Press reports. French media report at least one death, but no immediate radioactive leakage to the outside.
Update at 8:28 a.m. ET: The Associated Press quotes the French nuclear safety body as saying one person has been killed in the explosion of an oven at Marcoule nuclear plant, but there have been no radioactive leaks.
Update at 8:22 a.m. ET: Le Figaro says the site, which specializes in the treatment of radiological material, is operated by SOCODEI.
Update at 8:10 a.m. ET: The Associated Press quotes Evangelia Petit of the Agency for Nuclear Safety as confirming the explosion but declining to provide further details.
I bet at least 10 gallons of sperm shot out of your pecker this morning.
The hit the button every nuke plants has. The one that immediately claims no radiation was released. No workers were hurt.
Then it will dribble out .
It’s not fucking hard to both reassure the public, as well as the rest of the world, when there is an explosion, fire, burst pipe, cracks in buildings or other event that gets rational people wondering, like, what the fuck is up there?
Just make the radiation monitoring stations available, so everyone can see the measurements, you know, the fucking real data that is available 24/7. The data that of course was completely missing after 311, (it still is). It’s not like France isn’t dotted with devices that are there exactly for that purpose.
This “not releasing information” bullshit is one of the main reasons the nuclear fuckbats are distrusted by everyone with half a brain. They lie, cover up and flat out deceive, then cry tears of pain that people don’t just trust them.
http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Documents/france.htm
Since it was just a furnace full of low level waste (4 tons to be exact), even though it blew the fuck up, there shouldn’t be much radiation blowing in the wind right now.
The headline on my local news site calls it a “nuclear explosion”. :rolleyes: