The link below has additional photos from Abu Ghraib that are very disturbing. Suffice to saw NSFW. I should mention that these aren’t the same photos linked to upthread. Far more disturbing and without doubt evidence of very serious crimes. Fuck Rush Limbaugh for stating these photos are akin to frat hazing.
A Catholic?
Personally, I’m ashamed to be an American right now.
Most of the time I’m very proud of the contributions that America has made to global society. However, if i want to be proud of those things I also have to be ashamed of the opposite and now is one of those times.
Bullshit those are photos of American soldiers. We don’t wear those kind of BDUs anymore. Soldiers in Iraq would not be wearing woodland BDUs and woodland face paint. I think those are either screencaps from a low budget porn film; taken from some other military; or outright staged by some very dishonorable anti-war activists.
The comments on that site from people insisting the pictures are genuine are some of the stupidest shit I have ever seen in the internet.
Not to mention the photos were sent in to VOZ DE AZTLAN, hardly a neutral source, by Mexican-American soldiers who almost certainly had a radical agenda.
Want to expose atrocities? That’s fine. But using FAKE PHOTOS and LYING is not how to do it.
As opposed to, say, torture ?
What “rationalizations” ?
Yeah. Have we not been discussing this for four years? It’s revolting, but these stories have been leaking out and have even been discussed on the SDMB on an off for a long time. It’s a terrible thing and repulsive to know it for sure. But given the comments from Graham and others and the photos that came out years ago, I thought it was obvious there was rape and other sexual sadism.
I’m not even looking at the photos but I do recall when Abu Gharib first made news & there was a report of British troops filmed raping Iraqi women, which turned out to be porn movie clips.
That said, could there have been pics of U.S. soldiers raping Iraqi prisoners or US-allied Iraqi guards raping fellow Iraqis? Hell yeah. Because of course, Rumsfeld himself admitted there were pics of some sort of rape.
Btw, I’m a committed Righty, and never have been hardcore for the war, tho I regarded war against Saddam as eventually unavoidable- and I fully believe the U.S. soldiers that raped & killed the 14-yo girl & her family should be released unarmed (maybe literally) on the streets of Iraq. That would be even better that us executing them.
If American I would have volunteered to help Obama get into power. I really respect Obama and would love for a person of his level to be in power in my country.
That said, you have a lot more faith than me in your leaders than I.
It’s a very flat org chart.
Or conversely, by those looking to muddy the waters with a series of Rovian disinformation injections. See, *those *turned out to be fake—how can we be sure *any *photos are real? It’s all too confusing, and best just left alone!
I believe that the photos do exist, and that they are quite horrifying, but I will apply extreme skepticism to any such “leaks.”
A few problems with your stance.
First off, if the photos are such obvious fabrications that unsophisticed folks like you or I might spot them right off…they wouldn’t have been hidden. And it wouldn’t be a concern for Obama. They would not only not have been hidden, they would have been trumpeted to the skies by the Bushiviks as fakes. They would have been used to discredit such charges with great eagerness.
And I would be pleased if American personnel were not directly involved, but it doesn’t help that much. The prisoners were in our custody, and custody demands responsibility. The are under our power, but the are also under our care. If terrible things were done to them, its very cold comfort if American troops merely stood by, rather than participated.
And, lastly, a radical agenda does not a liar make. Have youi never met a red-blooded, flag-waving All American radical? Then allow me to be the first.
Methinks Argent doth protest too much.
Hell, I hope he’s right. But I fear its more like I wish he was right.
Just a question, Argent, when did the soldiers stop wearing the BDU’s in thiose photos, and secondly, 2when were those photos allegedly taken?
I’m a person who always doubts the editorial stance of the Telegraph (though I bought it every day when I lived in Blighty - addicted to the Crossward).
However, the Telegraph is a) a serious paper; b) staunchly conservative; c) staunchly pro-military; d) staunchly pro Anglo-American alliance (as opposed to looking towaards Europe).
The fact these are in the Telegraph increases the likelihood of their veracity, as they run against typical editorial biases in that paper.
While it’s true that I do have faith in Obama’s personal integrity and decency, my actual faith is in the politician in him. Here is the thing…if these pictures do clearly show rape by US personnel then they WILL eventually get out. You simply can’t cover stuff like this up. If they do get out then this will com back to bite Obama squarely on the ass for attempting to block them or sweep them under the rug. In fact, I’d say that the backlash against Obama would be 10 times worse than that against Bush…we all KNEW Bush was an evil little shit, after all. The damage to Obama’s reputation, however, would be irretrievably damaged IMHO.
And he has to know that. He’s too smart and savvy NOT to know that. And he would know that eventually something like this will get leaked by someone…heck, the original AG stuff was leaked despite the lock down Bush et al tried to put on all this…and I don’t think anyone believes that Obama is going to be one to put in harsher methods to ‘protect’ the information from the public than Bush did.
I guess we’ll see. Personally, if the military has been sitting on clear evidence of rape by US soldiers then it will blow my mind…that’s not the military as it was when I belonged to it. I’ll be even more shocked if this turns out to be true and Obama et al tried to block it, as that will be so far beyond my conception of the man as to render my current opinion of him completely worthless.
-XT
Problem is—and I’m referring specifically to the photos in the link posted by Chris Moise—there’s nothing to credibly suggest they *are *among the photos that were “hidden.” The site itself says:
Photos circulated between soldiers, sent by persons unknown to a media outlet that looks like a Mexican “Stormfront” with Web design by Timecube Guy—needless to say, it does not inspire particular confidence, and the photos themselves would not look out of place in a magazine published by one of Larry Flynt’s less-reputable competitors.
The photos to which your OP linked are much more troubling, IMO. However, the Aztlan “evidence” has an overpowering reek of mierda.
If the pictures show soldiers in woodland camo (I ain’t clicking on ANY link in this thread), then that’s a legitimate point. I have also heard criticism just this morning that there are a jumble of branches represented in the photos which do not reflect actual deployed units, and that several photos appear to be taken outdoors, with no prison in sight.
In this day and age, I won’t take any photo at face value. 
Granted, another criticism was that there were no name tapes or unit patches on the uniforms in the photos. This happens.
I was kidding- it was supposed to sound like I was accusing him of doing it. Frankly, I’m not putting a lot of stock in anything published by La Voz de Atzlan.
The Telegraph story, on the other hand…
The claim is not that the photos that Obama is suppressing are fakes. The claim is that the “leaked” photos showing up on blogs are fakes.
ETA: But there are sure to be many more of these fake “leaks”. That, to me, is a strong reason to release the real things. However bad they are, it’s hard to imagine that clever pornographers can’t portray something worse.