May I be the first to ask for the dreaded cite or (preferably) the friendly pat on the back that I am being whooshed with that statement?
The mangrove jungle of additional complications of rape in a marriage and the surely frightening high number of non reported cases nonewithstanding, the above idea seems to be a bit too strange to just accept as given.
@ Tentacle Monster, I admit that my initial curiosity immediatelly left to room to shot itself behind the house after seeing the first picture. But its still just a drawn picture and all the exposure to rotten, goatse and co it’s nothing that steals my sleep, my appetite may be a different matter when it’s lunchtime.
It’s not acceptable. In real Life This isn’t real life, it’s fantasy. I don’t see the problem, nor do I see the attraction. I’m a fan of ecchi/hentai art but you’ll not find a rape, or pedo pic in my collection. I don’t get it. But a lot of men there must feel powerless or subordinate to create such a large sub genre of art. I’m willing to bet that a lot of the hentai fans, are not fans of the real deal flicks. It takes something that’s a harmless indulgence to making it “too real”. I can’t too worked up over this.
Heh I saw a news show that targeted a whore house that specialized in girls acting underaged for the customers. The madam of the house claimed that modern men in Japan are taught that they should be smarter and better then their women and in a day and age where women are possibly as worldly/educated as the men are that they fear inferior and so seek out the ‘innocence’ of very young girls to compensate (the show didn’t say if there were rape fantasies but I remember that one of the big sellers was getting on a fake subway car and sliding your hand up a girls skirt while she just stood there and took it b/c she (in the fantasy of course) didn’t want to cause a scene and was secretly enjoying it). So you might have a point about the power issue…if a 1/2 remembered show and the word of a madam has any weight in this discussion.
And once again to be clear I’m not worked up or needing to relax. I have no stake in this. I just think it’s something interesting to look at all sides of.
Just a data point: it wasn’t too long ago in this country that it was, in many jurisdictions, legally impossible for a man to rape his wife – that is, the state of matrimony was conclusive proof of consent.
Sorry, I should probably put it in my profile but I am german, and while I know that the german law had a similiar law, which was repealed some time ago. I admit I would have to do a google on the exact date, my statement was into the direction that the idea that such a law is still upheld in a progressive (first world, modern, western oriented, take your pick all the terms can sound tacky) country like Japan is disturbing.
The thread’s pretty much wandered, so I guess continuing the hijack couldn’t hurt.
The clearance rate for crimes in Japan is fairly high (although I don’t have the numbers with me), and that may indeed serve as a deterrent. I’m of the opinion, however, that the clearance rate is as high as it is because of a few not-so-admirable factors.
This is anecdotal, but the police have a reputation for dissuading people from filing a report for crimes that will be difficult or inconvenient to pursue. Some bad examples are the Niigata kidnapping case*, plus another from a couple of years back when a college student was murdered by a hitman hired by her ex-boyfriend. In this case it came out that she had complained to the police that he was threatening her, but they pressured her to retract her complaint. They are also known for simply dropping the charges if they think it likely that the suspect will be found not guilty by reason of insanity, as they did when Mamoru Takuma was released without going to trial after trying to murder two of his co-workers. He then went on to murder eight schoolchildren in Osaka and bragged about how he had tricked the police into letting him go the first time.
Another problem is that the police and prosecutors in Japan have much greater latitude in their ‘interview’ techniques than American police do. Suspects can be held for three weeks without being charged, there is no right to have an attorney present, and confessions extracted during interrogation (with only police as witnesses) have been considered valid. I often hear that the majority of cases are ‘solved’ when the suspect confesses to his crimes. Considering the circumstances, I can’t help but wonder how valid the confessions are.
A third problem is that there is no jury system, and the judges overwhelmingly find in favor of the prosecution (there are several with guilty verdict rates of 99% and even 100%). A couple of cases that garnered some international attention are those of Nick Baker and Rosal Manalili, both of whom were convicted under questionable circumstances.
the search function isn’t finding it, but I wrote a Pit rant about this a year or so back. A little girl was kidnapped and held prisoner in a small bedroom for 9 years, during which time the police were called on several occasions by people who suspected what was going on, but in every case they declined to investigate.
I’ve thought about this one a little bit, and here’s my response.
Watching simulations of depraved acts may or may not be encouraging or deterring the real thing. I haven’t seen conclusive evidence for either. However, there is something deep down in my gut that says it’s wrong to get aroused by watching a girl whimpering and crying as she is brutally raped, and that’s exactly what these images are designed to do.
That said, I will concede that in weak, sex addled moments, rape fantasies have entered into my fantasies, as clearly it has for many people. The difference I think, is that these aren’t fantasies that I seek out, or try to cultivate in my consciousness. If the Japanese (or anyone else for that matter) thinks there is no harm, no foul in depicting minor school girls being gang raped, something seriously wrong is happening.
The people making these films are taking one of the most vicious acts one person can perpetrate on another and making it merely risqué, taboo, a forbidden pleasure. Rape is not a forbidden pleasure, it’s an often indelible violation of personal security. The fact that people are marketing rape films, making money off of it is beyond an insult to any person that has had their life tainted by it.
I don’t think it explains anything. There are too many other factors to be considered, not the least of which is that Japan is a much less violent society overall than the U.S. Not only are there far fewer rapes in Japan than in the U.S., per capita, but the same is true of assaults, robberies and – to an extent – murders (see below).
Crimes per capita (per 1000 people):
_____________U.S.___Japan__Factor
Rapes________0.32___0.02___16
Murders______0.05___0.01___5
Assaults_____7.98___0.34___23
Robberies____1.46___0.04___37
Burglaries___7.48___2.33___3.2
Car Thefts___4.09___2.44___1.7
Another important factor regarding the declining incidence of (reported) rape in Japan is that attitudues toward sexual harassment, sexual discrimination, and the social status of women in general in Japan have been changing significantly. There is much less female nudity on TV than there was ten years ago, and gropers on rush-hour trains are no longer tolerated like they used to be. In this light, it’s hardly surprising that there are fewer rapes in Japan than there were thirty years ago.
Given the various other factors that have to be taken into account, the correlation between the vibrant Japanese porn industry and the low incidence of rape in Japan doesn’t mean much, by itself. Personally, though, I think there’s a low incidence of rape in Japan despite the porn industry rather than because of it.
cainxinth, have you read the thread that Larry Mudd linked to? I see this thread going right in that direction.
I’ll jump in as a woman who is a rape survivor who STILL HAS RAPE FANTASIES. Hentai rape is very, obviously eroticised (as violent as it is), and stylized. Plenty of woman, I dare say millions have violent rape/domination/kidnapping fantasies and things like written erotica and hentai allow us to halfway experiencing these fantasies in a safe environment.
I mean, it’s much better for me to write/read rape erotica than to place an ad in the paper for a stranger to act something out.
Well apart from having studied attitudes towards rape, including rape within marriage (which has correctly been pointed out was legal up until fairly recently for most western countries and is still legal is many, possibly most developing nations) within my own culture, whilst living in Japan I have been party to at least two conversations with women which blew my mind. During one of them we were sitting around talking about sex for some unknown reason, one younger woman had just got married and was having fun with sex, another older one, with envy said how she didn’t like having to do it when she didn’t want to and it was the part of marriage she didn’t like.
Noone except me (the only westerner present) thought, whoa, that’s rape.
Why would you report a rape if a. it is not illegal and b. you don’t think of it as rape, c. you didn’t resist anyway because it is just a marriage duty you do not wish to perform but do anyway? Japanese women in my experience, would think of stranger non-concentual sex as ‘rape’. I am ofcourse generalising, and I lived in a very traditional area of the far North, those who have been exposed to western ideology, law, culture may well have different thoughts.
I also should have stated that as of 1996, rape within marriage was legal, I’m not sure if the law has changed.
I challenge this assertion. There is no evidence that pornography causes people to rape. You are confusing simultaneity with cause/effect. “Everything that we have learned”, indeed.:rolleyes:
And I think all of you are missing the point. The point is that you have no more evidence to back up the assertion that porn causes rape than Tentacle Monster has to back up his assertion that it prevents rape. It’s all just wild speculation.
And lets stop with this silly posturing about “Oh my God - what kind of sick, diseased, pervert has fantasies about rape?”. Give me a fucking break. Rape and domination fantasies are completely mainstream everywhere, it’s just a matter of degree. If you recall, just last Sunday, Justin Timberlake ripped some of Janet Jackson’s clothing off. That’s how they acted it out, too - he didn’t say “Excuse me, Janet - may I undo your brassiere?”, he reached over and tore it off. And how many movies coming out of Hollywood feature women being dominated? It’s a standard plot formula - the bad guy abducts the sexy woman (who is usually scantily-clad), ties her up or subdues her some other way, and tries to have his way with her. The fact that she’s rescued at the last second by the hero doesn’t change the implied rape fantasy.
It’s natural to have fantasies about domination. If it weren’t, you can bet Hollywood wouldn’t be putting that stuff in there. And when you take a society like Japan, where people struggle in extremely high-pressure jobs, are completely dominated by their employers, and feel powerless every day, you can bet there are going to be a lot more men having fantasies about domination. They just take it a lot further.
Personally, I don’t see the problem with an animated fantasy like that. I think Deagan really nailed it:
People ought to be much more concerned with the real subjugation of women that’s going on around the world, not some harmless drawings.
Play it off as over-sensitivity if you wish. What I saw in that movie was not okay, it was totally fucked up I’m a little taken aback that so many of you can have such an openly cavalier attitude about rape.
All kidding aside, if you are dreaming about raping someone or being raped, shouldn’t you be consulting a shrink and not your local smut dealer?
But it wasn’t REAL. It was a drawing. It didn’t really happen. What disturbed you so much? If it wasn’t the rape fantasy in general, was it the schoolkids, the pregnant woman or the hermaphrodyte? I guess I don’t get it - is rape worse if a hermaphrodyte does it? Is it less wrong if the woman isn’t pregnant?
Oh, now I see why you put this in the pit; you thought you could get away with such intellectually dishonest statements. I don’t think anyone has a cavalier attitude about rape. I think some people spoke honestly about rape fantasies, but not rape. It’s not the same thing, and your attempt to paint it as such is total bullshit.
I also notice that you hide behind the vagueness of saying “many of you”. You level the most heinous of charges, yet decline to state exactly who you are accusing. Deplorable.
Now you’re going to tell people what you think is appropriate and inappropriate for them to THINK about? Please. Or are you simply assuming that those who participate or think about rape fantasy are too stupid to realize that the real thing is different? I’ve been through both and pal, there ain’t NO similarities. I’m not walking the streets looking to be raped, because I’m a sentient, functioning adult. But if I sit at home and get off thinking about being ravished by Pirates or Football Players or Orcs or some such shit, what’s the fucking harm?
This bears repeating. It is not the same. I often fantasize about my husband storming home from work, flinging open the front, dragging me by my hair to the bed, despite my loud and pleading protests…and well, you get the picture. This, however, does not mean that I condone the crime of rape, nor does it mean I am somehow unhealthy in my attitudes about sexuality.
In case she misses it. It is not the same. I’ve had fantasies about been raped by my husband. We’ve acted out, and it was darn good. That doesn’t meand that I go around dark alleys hoping to be raped by a stranger nor would I want my husband to rape for real.
Get real, stop accusing random dopers of supporting rape. That’s bullshit.
