I don’t care what someone masturbates to, so long as A) nobody was seriously hurt in the making of the pornography and B) nobody not capable of legally signing a contract (including animals) is involved in the making of the pornography. In the making of hentai, the only people hurt are the people at the animation studio, and the whips the supervisors use rarely cause lasting damage.
I may not agree with what you masturbate to, but (in most cases) I’ll defend to the death your right to masturbate to it.
In the OP, cainxinth said he was looking on kazaa for some porn when he downloaded Bible Black, and that’s when he was shocked. Now, I’ve always believed that if something offends you, turn it off and watch something else. Somehow he managed to stomach at least one rape scene and keep watching, or else he wouldn’t be able to describe more than one scene. In the future, cainxinth, may I suggest doing a quick Google search on the title before downloading unknown hentai? Save yourself the time spent downloading something you’ll be offended by.
As far as making money off of someone’s perverted fantasies, well, one man’s meat is another man’s perversion. Also, the actual products of the perverted fantasy industry, when used properly, don’t usually hurt anybody. Since the advent of DVD, injuries and fatalities by porn assault are way down. It takes a really good arm to hurt someone with a DVD.
In short: save your outrage for something that really matters. It doesn’t matter if your neighbor is rubbing one out to a 1978 Playboy or Bondage Queen Kate. It neither picks your pocket nor breaks your leg.
This is interesting as an anecdote, but I don’t think it’s proof that “women don’t even think of it as ‘rape’ if they are married”. I don’t think it’s even proof that a woman “doesn’t even think of it as ‘rape’ if she’s married”, since “having to do it when she didn’t want to” could mean any number of things. It could mean spousal rape, or it could merely mean consenting to sex when you’re not really in the mood just to make your spouse happy.
I didn’t ask why Japanese women don’t report spousal rape; I doubt they have reasons much different from women in other cultures who don’t report spousal rape. But I simply do not believe that the women of Japan universally agree that their husbands can do whatever they like to them and it’s no big deal to them personally. Maybe that’s not what you meant with your earlier post (which was just a one-liner), but that’s what it looked like. I too live in Japan, and I too know a lot of Japanese women, and I just can’t believe that the women I know would all be A-OK with being raped by their husbands. A little “marital duty” sex, maybe, but not being forced by threat or violence into performing sexual acts.
But I don’t mean to pick on you too much, MelCthefirst, especially since I suspect now that I may have misunderstood your meaning. It’s the OP, cainxinth, who’s really bothering me. cainxinth, I personally don’t care for pornography and I am disturbed by the idea of violent pornography that glamorizes rape. The description of the video in your OP was upsetting to me. But what I found far more upsetting is the way you’ve been phrasing this issue not as “There’s something wrong with rape porn!” but rather as “There’s something wrong with the Japanese!” There is something wrong with you if you think you’re in a position to condemn a rich and fascinating culture just because you happened to catch a glimpse of one of its fringe pornographic videos. Do you think the people and culture of your country would look any better if judged in the same way?
I think your all fucking nuts. Go watch “Bible Black” and watch tears stream down the student body president as ten dudes rape the shit out of her and shallack her with cum, and then tell me that its just wholesome, healthy sexual expression, art even. I don’t care if it was a shadow puppet film, its fucking depraved, and the thought of some smut lord counting up your fucking money as he hawks that shit is even more revolting.
If you and hubby want to play domination games in the privacy of your sex lives, that’s your business, but that movie is fucking wrong in every way possible.
In my encounters I’ve never seen rape porn in the US, and if it is legal here and does exist, it certainly not as prevelant as it appears to be in Japan.
I just don’t get any of it. Not only is rape fucked up, its a crime. I think everyone agrees its still something that can enter into ones sexual thoughts without being unhealthy. But, these movies are mainstreaming what should be a very, very underground and private thing.
I think you are a very sick person. Perverted and sick. You go on the internet looking for depictions of sexual acts. We all know that porn promotes unsafe sex, sex outside marriage, and it also strips sex of its sanctity while objetifying women. You should be deeply ashamed of yourself.
Point taken, but it’s a question of boundaries, and that movie crosses too many of them. I’m mean what is sick for someone who find “Bible Black” OK? I think the sick train stops with rape porn.
I am so with you, Lamia, and sadly there are women who would call “consenting to sex when you’re not really in the mood just to make your spouse happy” rape, which is stupid, disingenuous, and divisive, IMHO.
Where were you when you watched the video that sparked the OP, then? You didn’t have to go to Japan to get it, did you?
Of course it’s legal and of course it exists. How sheltered are you? I don’t even watch porn (unlike some people, I choose to avoid media I find distasteful) and I know there is rape porn in the US. The “Rape sex” thread linked to earlier in this thread was started by one person surprised and disgusted by his discovery of such porn. And that was porn with real people in it, not cartoon characters.
And what makes you the expert on what is prevalent in Japan? I live in Japan, and while I am aware that Japanese rape porn exists this is only because I heard about it in America. I have never seen it here, nor has anyone ever brought it up in conversation with me. Maybe if I went out looking for porn I’d find some, but as I said, I don’t like porn so I don’t seek it out.
First, thanks, I’d rather not watch the film. It’s this wierd thing I do where I avoid watching or reading things I know will offend me. You should try it some time.
Second, of course it’s not wholesome. It’s porn. Duh! As for healthy, do you have any evidence of anyone’s health, physical or mental, being harmed in any way because of this movie? If not, then yes, I believe I would have to call it “healthy.”
Oh, and what the hell: it’s art, too.
I agree. Free porn now! Porn to the people! The people excited shall never be divided!
“I don’t mind what those fags do in the privacy of their own homes, I just don’t like seeing 'em flaunt it all over the place!”
Sorry, but it’s not anyone else’s responsibility to see that you get to go through your life without ever being grossed out. You don’t want to see rape porn, don’t look at it. Really, very simple idea.
Well, it’s not quite wrong in every possible way. The one way it’s not wrong is in the way it causes no actual harm to anyone who actually exsists. So long as that’s true, all the other ways it’s “wrong” are merely matters of personal taste.
Here’s the thing, I would never watch Bible Black, just like I don’t go out seeking DOLCETT websites (which I’m sure you’d love) , because I’ve learned, as an adult what my limit is. Yours is apparently lower than mine.
I find women crying very sexy as a matter of fact. Women begging, pleading, crying AS A PART OF A FANTASY is what turns me on. Do I go out and burn women with matches to achieve that? No.
Fantasy vs. Reality. Some of us can separate it, some of us can’t.
Those of us in the West may get a distorted perception about how much of Japanese entertainment is Hentai, and how much of Hentai is extreme-themed, because the exporters/importers of the material know that in this marketplace, shock value = $$$ . Most of what’s in the Japan domestic porn market is probably just as much ordinary, ho-hum, “look, tits!”, “look, a dick(OK, the pixelled outline of a dick)!”, “look, ‘lesbians’!”, material as what’s in the US domestic porn market
BTW, it is true that in American “big studio” porn (e.g. Vivid) there was a “cleanup” of some of the taboo themes such as rape and incest in the mid-late 80’s… but that was because of the unlikely conjunction of the Reagan/Meese administration and the loudness of McKinnon/Dworkin feminism making it in their best interest to avoid feeding the argument that Porn Causes Rape. “Teen Girl” themes were chilled by the Traci Lords scandal, who turned out she REALLY was between 15 and 17 when doing her pornos. But guess what? “Rough” porn and “schoolgirl” porn have stuck around and are available in the good ol’ USA.
We;ve seem to have stretched the word “rape” to now include “sex that I didn’t enjoy”. Not a good thing. There are and have been plenty million of women throughout the world that have never enjoyed sex yet have consented to have sex with their spouses. Sex without consent is rape. Sex without pleasure is just lousy sex.
This topic probably needs a thread of its own. Rape within marriage is a can of worms when you try to define it. Sometimes it is obviously rape and sometimes not. I agree that sex without pleasure is just lousy sex, but I was not refering to this. Within marriage, some women consent to have sex with their husbands even though they don’t want to. The reasons why they consent can be quite varied. To consent is usually the path of least resistance. Women can be emotionally abused and scared of their partner and see the best way to deal with the man, for them, is to consent, some women have such poor self-esteem or inexperience that they don’t realise they can say no etc. etc.
Also, I was not refering to all Japanese women and tried to qualify my statement. We give value and understanding to words and people differ in their understanding of them in other cultures and subcultures. Therefore it is quite conceivable that a Japanese woman may view stranger, violent, non-consentual sex as ‘rape’, but not if it is non-violent, legal and with her husband.
It’s a documented fact that aggresive pornography increases agression towards women. In the laboratory setting at least. Wayne Weiten sums it up.
“Studies indicate that this type of material (rape porn) increases male subjects’ aggressive behavior toward women, at least in the context of the research laboratory (Donnerstein & Malamuth, 1997; Zillmann & Weaver, 1989). In the typical study, male subjects work on a laboratory task and are led to believe (falsely) that they are delivering electric shocks to other subjects. In this situation, their aggresion toward females tends to be elevated after exposure to aggressive pornography. Exposure to aggressive pornography may also make sexual coercion seem less offensive and may desensitize males to sexual violence (Mullin & Linz, 1995). In particular, it helps perpetuate the myth that women enjoy being raped and ravaged (allen et al., 1995).”
These are facts people. Rape is a crime of violence and control. It pretty much (barring a few odd cases) requires aggression toward women. Rape porn demonstratably ups aggression towards women.
Of course, the effect isn’t universal and of course it takes a special kind to be pushed to the point where they’ll get and up and rape someone when they wouldn’t have before. There are people who are mentally sound enough to watch rape porn and not be negatively affected by it. And then again there are a lot of people who aren’t.
If somebody could put forth a realistic way of filtering out those who would be affected by it in a bad way, I’d have no problem with rape porn. I haven’t seen that solution, nor is anything like it implemented now, so I am against it.
Some people habitually overconsume alcohol and drive recklessly or become violent. Should we ban all alcohol until we can put forth a realisitc way of filtering out those who are predisposed to alcoholism? Some people use religion as an excuse to commit violence against others. Should we ban religion until we can figure out a way of detecting people who are predisposed to zealotry? Some people read Catcher in the Rye and believe it wants them to shoot a member of the Beatles. Should we ban J.D. Salinger until Paul and Ringo finally kick off? If someone commits a crime, then you puish the criminal. You don’t punish people who happen to have the same hobbies.
It’s also worth pointing out that one study does not a scientific consensus make. There are many other studies that found no correlation between exposure to pornography and violence towards women. The issue is far from settled.
I don’t want to start a tangent but what about “reality” type porn where the whole point is to make it like the girls don’t like it, like they got in over their heads but too bad, they took the hundred bucks so they can’t say no now. Most of those sites do have disclaimers if you look for them but the whole idea is that you are getting to see girls have a terrible time and wish they could go home but too bad for them. Does everyone who feels comfortable with rape porn feel comfortable with that? There was a thread on this board about whether or not bangbus is real and I know guys who think that these types of sites are real and that the girls are forced. It doesn’t stop them from looking at them.
Your first 2 examples have nothing to do with art. Your last one was done by a man who was clearly nowhere approaching sanity. These are apples and oranges.
As for the studies that find no correlation, I haven’t seen them, but I’m willing to read them. Got some examples?