Allrighty. Just so I’d know what I’d seen I borrowed a copy of Bible Black from a friend who collects anime and hentai. FUCKING RELAX! Jesus it wasn’t even a decent hentai, much less what I’d call an obscene or over the line one. I’ve seen MUCH MUCH worse. You can find plenty of material out there that is FAR more bizzare then that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s an exploration of the bizzarre. A hermaphrodite is exciting because it has the sexual attractiveness of a female while also possesing the dominant power factor of having a male organ, usually an impossibly large one. Beyond that the herm can experiance orgasm form both sexual organs simultaneously, a sort of dominance and submission all at once. Hell i’ve seen females with Giant cock like clits “rape” other females in anime. The imagery is OBVIOUS. It’s a total power fantasy, and that in and of itself is NOT a bad thing. My S.O. and I routinely trade off dominence rolls during sex. Occasionally I’ll get extra aggressive, and so will she. Rough sex can be FUN. Power trips can be FUN. Relax. We all need to feel importance and power occasionally. These fantasies are harmless! The people who act upon such urges have serious psycological problems that existed before they viewed an damn CARTOON.
I disagree. The kind of person who would rape a woman because of an animated movie is just about as far from sanity as someone who thinks that a book is instructing him to kill people.
But Malamuth also says that this effect is not shown outside the laboratory:
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/commstudies/faculty/malamuth/pdf/ency2001.pdf
Besides which, these studies have exactly fuck all to do with whether rape porn causes men to rape. Here’s the methodology of one of them:
http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/chunter/porn_effects.html#aggression
So this study showed that men, when deliberately insulted by a woman and then encouraged to administer electric shocks to the woman, shocked the women somewhat more after being exposed to rape pornography. I’d bet you would get the same result showing them a violent movie like Die Hard or Pulp Fiction. Why were the controls “nonaggressive pornography” and “neutral stimuli”, but no non-sexual violent stimuli?
In fact, when a study was done that controlled for non-sexual violent stimuli, this conclusion was reached:
And again, not the slightest hint of evidence that rape porn causes rape.
Here’s another study regarding “densensitization”:
Does anyone think that proves anything other than if you watch something over and over, it will have less impact?
They’re certainly interesting studies, but like you said, they show, at most, that aggressive behavior and/or attitudes can be influenced somewhat by massive exposure to pornography, and/or depictions of violence, under controlled conditions. There’s no evidence that pornography causes any real cases of crime against women.
Earl:
This is disingenuous; you’re trying to imply that rape porn causes rape without actually saying it, and using tortured reasoning. Rape may require aggression (although this is a strange way of putting it; it’s actually pretty much defined as aggression), but aggression does not require rape. Aggression and rape are not the same thing. If a man is mad at a woman and gives her an electric shock (which action is sanctioned by those running the experiment), you are stretching things beyond the absurd to suggest that in any way proves he might rape her.
This is a pretty interesting read:
http://www.apa.org/divisions/div46/articles/linz.pdf
Interesting, authored by two of the researchers you cited (Linz and Malamuth)
Doesn’t say that there isn’t any correlation (although the only long-term study (Malamuth & Ceniti, 1986) found none), but it does pretty strongly indicate that anyone claiming that a proven link one way or another is using studies with very flawed methodology or is filtering the results through their own ideology.
Make that “…anyone claiming that a proven link exists…”
Latest twist: family of teacher who was killed by rape fantasist calls for banning of rape sites on internetFWIW, I think they’re barking up the wrong tree, both for the reasons cited in this thread and also because trying to ban anything on the internet is like trying to squeeze gravy.
But I can understand why these devastated people would seek something to blame.
pan
So, you guys know what the solution is, don’t you? Ban porn. Not just “rape porn,” but every flavor of hentai, girl-on-girl/guy-on-guy (esp. in Ohio), and any and all sex videos. Anything that “titillates but doesn’t educate,” encourages the dominance or objectivication of women, or otherwise doesn’t depict the sexual act as a natual congress between a married straight couple for the express purpose of procreation, as god intended. Actually, you probably shouldn’t depict that either, as it will undoubtedly be seen as exciting to someone…
Next up is violence. My god the violence in movies and TV! And look at how violent a society we are because of it! We gotta get rid of that, too. All of it. There’s really no excuse for it.
And, really, conflict of any kind. Conflict certainly can’t be good. Look how much arguing there is in the world! If we put a ban on depicting people crying, arguing, or otherwise showing an unnatural negative emotion in our media, perhaps we will stamp such negative “ideas” from our society!
Quiet on the set!
[EMILY, dressed in a frock and bonnet, enters the room. Her husband of 20 years, DAVID, looks up from where he’s sitting quietly and nods to her.]
DAVID: Hello, my wife of 20 years. How was your day?
EMILY [sitting down across from her husband, their knees 10 feet from each others]: Fine, and how was yours?
DAVID: Oh. Fine.
[EMILY and DAVID stare at each other pleasantly for 90 minutes. Fade to black.]
Now that’s decent, wholesome cinema!
[Sorry. Censorship of any kind is a button issue with me, as are the creepy type of people who want to define where we’re allowed to point our imaginations.]
I lived in Japan for awhile, and while I think things are getting better for women there, it seems like they still have quite a ways to go. I think that’s one of the problems of having such a homogenous society; change tends to come too slowly.
Yes - I think that’s the point that several posters were trying to make here. What arouses us can be very complicated and tricky. Maybe male-on-male rape turns you on because you subconsciously want to see men punished for what some men have done to women. Or maybe not - who knows? The point is that it’s a fantasy - you don’t really want it to happen.
And it’s not just that it’s a fantasy, blowero, but that one person’s fantasy is another’s repellant act. Hentai? Might as well talk about gay porn movies, too, because some people consider them to be far more degerate and morally corrupt than any simulated rape porn out there. Others simply consider porn in general to be the devil’s toolkit (what with the socket wrench, screwdriver, and all that other suggestive hardware).
Really, though, any hentai is arguably much much more ethically neutral than the porn we all know and love in the U.S. As more than a few have pointed out, they are fucking cartoons. (Or cartoons fucking–yeah, yeah.) “Live” porn, on the other hand, uses real people in typically soul-crushing conditions for producers who typically never had a soul in the first place.
What really confuses me are the people who see something like Bible Black, call it disgusting, but in explaining why make it evident that they watched the whole thing. Huh? When you drink a glass of soured milk, do you choke down the rest to–what?–make sure? (I think it’s for the ammunition to be a self-righteous prick, but the possibilities are endless…)
Hentai is generally not my cup of tea, either, but get a grip: Your Puritan heritage is showing.
[This is my 12th post in over a year? And twice in this one thread? And not even directly on topic, and meandering at that? Maybe I need to work out some issues… can I borrow $10,000 for therapy? Anyone?)
It would certainly constitute evidence that rape porn isn’t ENCOURAGING Real Life rape in Japan, as some people here seem to think it would.
Well, I like hentai, not so much because of the rape but because of the sexual bondage, and the fact that they have plots, and sometimes they are beautifully illustrated, and because they are capable of surprising me in many ways.
If you look at hentai as what they are, they’re a lot stranger than just “animated porn” and a lot more interesting. Japanese culture is fascinating, I really enjoy finding out more about it and I generally like the Japanese, but I would not want to be Japanese.
Generally, I think almost any sexual fantasy is OK, so long as it’s recognized as a fantasy by the fantasizer. I don’t think sexual fantasies come from any rational part of the human mind, and it’s not fair to hold people to account for having sexual fantasies. You can hold people to account for acting those sexual fantasies in a nonconsensual manner, but I think people have to be free at least in their own minds and in their ability to communicate what’s in their minds, if you are going to have a healthy society.
Thanks a lot. I am dying of curiosity now to know what is so awful about Waita Uziga but I am at work and can’t look! Can someone put up a spoiler of what it is, in as simplistic terms as possible - such as it involves animals, children, necrophelia, or monsters or whatever? Please? I’ll owe you one!
As for on topic, I am a (female) rape victim (17 years ago now and largely recovered, though) and for some reason I am not opposed to hentai. I wouldn’t say I am exactly a fan, but what I have run across on the internet, I have found more stimulating than repulsive. Live action rape is repulsive to me, though. I am going to have to side with **Deagan The Wolf ** here that it is fantasy and just different.
Basically, it features (drawn) women being mutilated, tortured, and killed in just about any way you can imagine, and any way you can’t imagine. The title of the site is Uziga’s Deadly Joy, which implies that, yes, people beat off to it.
Oh… Oh yeah, that’s hot… Oh yeah… Don’t stop… –rub rub rub–
Thank you, Tentacle Monster. Then I don’t need to see it when I get home. That I can do without. :eek:
It’s good to be interested in foreign culture, but I hope you’re not one of the people who has made the mistake of thinking they can understand Japan and the Japanese by watching Japanese animated porn, or Japanese anime in general. I have met far, far too many people who are laboring under the mistaken idea that having seen Legend of the Overfiend or every episode of Sailor Moon makes them some sort of cultural expert.
These people often develop very strange and incorrect ideas about Japanese culture because their only “facts” come from fringe entertainment. For instance, I knew one American woman who sincerely believed that it was common for Japanese teenagers to live in apartments alone without their parents. Why? Because it happens all the time in anime! I had to explain to her that anime parents are the same place Charlie Brown’s parents are – conveniently out of the picture to allow the kids to have adventures. It has nothing to do with the living arrangements of real people.
Now, this may not be applicable to you at all Evil Captor – for all I know you actually are an expert on Japan, or at least know that you can’t become one by watching videos alone. But since others in this thread, especially the OP, have made the mistake of judging an entire nation of people based solely on its extreme pornography I felt I should take the opportunity to say something.
Actually, what watching Japanese anime and hentai has convinced me of is that there’s a heck of a lot I don’t know about Japanese culture.
If it makes you feel any better, plenty of Japanese people are puzzled by Japanese anime. On the innocent side of things, no one seems to know what sort of animal Drimon is supposed to be, and he’s one of the most popular cartoon characters in the country. When it comes to less mainstream entertainment, well, some of it really is just weird.
Thanks, Airman 