Rated E for Evolution and strong scientific content!

I think it would read “As your ignorance grows, your volume multiplies.”

I bought Cosmic Voyage after seeing it at the Smithsonian. Absolutely love that film! I can’t remember anything that would be offensive to the Pats and Jerrys of this world, but I will bring it out and watch it again.

You have put words to thoughts and feelings that I have held for a long, long time. Thanks for this, gobear.

“I really hate it when the theory of gravity is presented as fact,” said one participant as he floated up over the parking lot. Others were heard grumbling about the film’s “blatant affront to our deeply-held geocentric views.”

Somebody needs to set up a fundie dictionary fund before they start pulling their kids out of Music Theory clases.

Anybody else starting to think that the fight against ignorance is a losing battle. Who wants the ole “crayola oblongata?”

You know, when I was younger I thought that scientific discoveries would bring about a New Renaissance. When the Internet came along, I thought of the wondrous possibilities of having access to a world of knowledge. But in the last 10 years or so, I’m discovering more and more people with a definite lack of critical thinking.

Maybe the exchange of information has become too easy. Before the Internet, I rarely came across any fundies. I guess they were sequestered in their own little areas. Now they seem to be everywhere.

I fear that the fight against ignorance is a losing battle in this country, and that as fundies press their own agendas we may devolve into a theocracy along the lines of the Taliban.


I wish you people would lay off my Aunt Pat and Uncle Jerry. Sure, they were crazy and unpleasant old coots and I successfully avoided them since 1975 but the State of Wisconsin decided I deserved $3500 of their estate so they couldn’t be ALL bad. :mad:

You know, reading this thread, with the Schiavo business going on right now makes me edgy.

The main direction of the GOP has been to embrace religious conservatives. To win rural voters, they have used this and the “man of the people” approach. With this, and not discouraged by the GOP, has come an undercurrent of anti-intellectualism.

Well, the chickens are coming home to roost. And I’m not sure that the GOP can (or even wants) to contain this. It’s all very well talking about liberal elitism or ivory tower bullshit; when it comes to science education and science policy, that’s kind of what you need.

I’ve said it a lot, but American science dominance depends on a lot of factors which all are prime to come crashing down. It’s getting harder to get student visas, so the top-notch foreign graduate students that populate science grad schools around the country go to Europe or Canada. NIH and NSF funding has been levelled off. There are new, near draconian rules for conflict of interest for NIH employees. There are clear rejections of science when it comes to science policy (global warming and abstinence education for teen sex ed and foreign HIV prevention come to mind). And with every week, it seems like the government takes steps away from rational thought (Schiavo, evolution in schools, etc.)

In my mind, this country is throwing away one of its best and most productive resources, its science infrastructure.

We allow every flavour you like, as long as its vanilla!!

You can have any flavor you want. Just don’t try to tell me that Chunky Monkey somehow “evolved” into Cherry Garcia! That claim is completely unsupported by the Ben & Jerry’s fossil record.

In which case we might have a good shot at making a life elsewhere. It’s not an accident that one of the nation’s hotspots for biotech is right next to Harvard and MIT. Money follows the intellects.

The multinational big pharmers won’t stay here if there feeder cells of publicly funded research dries up. There won’t be chemicals, postdocs, PIs, or technicians for them to skim off of the big universities. They’ll move on to greener pastures.

Watching this Schiavo debate, I can’t help but think that this is a sea change for our country. It represents a turning point. We will look back at this debate, coupled with the bankruptcy bill, coupled with the evolution blather, with the deficit, with the nonsensical tax cuts, and look at the lack of outrage, at the utter apathy and unreasoned thinking of the American populace, and point to that as the start of the decline. Just wait until the higher energy costs drive the economy down, and the dollar drops more, and the interest rates go up. I just have this feeling that it’s now all irreversibly downhill from here.

Maybe it’s just me fighting 2 weeks of viral illnesses while trying to write a thesis (due tomorrow, defense in two weeks!) has me all weirded. But really, it is a shonda what this country is turning in to.

I know the name “Shonda” is a little bit evocative of trailer parks and educational aspirations that don’t go much beyond Beauty School, but I’ve never heard it used precisely that way before. :confused:

Shondah: (rhymes with Honda) a shame, a pity. A “shonda for the goyim” means to do something shameful, publicly witnessed by non-Jews, thus bringing shame upon Jews in general (because, the theory goes, we are all held accountable for the worst deeds of the worst of us.) Also, “Such a smart girl like that. It’s a shonda she’s such a meiskeit (physically unattractive person).”

From http://www.bubbygram.com/yiddishglossary.htm

Still, anti-intellectualism is hardly new to the American political scene. Didn’t you guys once have a party called the “Know-Nothings”?

The Know-Nothings were anti-Catholic, IIRC. And they didn’t control 3 wings of government and actively act to break down the barriers that have kept the government running for 230 years now.

Same thing for the Bay Area. Lots of biotech and of course, computer and IT stuff.

Maybe you’re right. Perhaps money does follow the intellectuals.

Now what will we do when large parts of the Bible-Belt turn into barren deserts with hordes of wandering, starving Bible-thumpers who hoarsely chant Bible verses even as they starve because of their own stubborn and willful ignorance?

Are we supposed to do the “Christian” thing then and take them in and feed and comfort them? Even as they tried and succeeded to ruin large swaths of our great nation and almost destroyed the entire country? That would be a little ironic, no?

[bitter, frightened, hateful anger]

You know what? I’m going to respond again. I am really scared and really angry. Fuck the morons. Fuck them straight to their imagined Hell.

It’s time to end this crap once and for all. I despise violence but it’s the language they understand.

So let’s start the conversation.

I’m afraid it’s “us” against “them”. They have lots of guns and plenty of gap-toothed knuckle-draggers to shoot them. But we have the brains capable of critical thinking, developing technology and sustaining an economy.

We can manufacture and aquire weapons. They can’t ever get the critical thinking–they purposely avoid it at all costs.

We win.

[/bitter, frightened, hateful anger]

“aquire” should be acquire.

Eesh. They got to you, to.

Breathe. Remember-- A group’s possession of weapons (or mere desire for weapons) doesn’t justify the use of force against them. That’s the way they do it.

As far as science infrastructure is concerned, I don’t think the neo-con approach is the end-of-economic-sustainability that y’all are making it out to be. Anti-evolutionary propaganda is insignificant. You guys can get by, economically, without the technologies that put a hair up their ass. So you lose some of the cutting-edge medical research and technology. You still have the majority of it. Enough to keep plenty of people employed. If the actual usable tech is verboten, then the economic losses will be mitigated by the reduced life expectancy. Good for Social Security, good for the employment rate. Woot!

Besides, the real money’s in military tech, and they eat that shit up.

Ouch. You ever grin so hard your teeth break?


Whoops… Thanks for the yiddish lesson, edwino. That makes sense – and makes me feel even more pity for all the Shondas out there. (Not that ‘Larry’ is much better.)