I like Scylla’s bear hypothesis. Lemme ask you guys this.
For how long and how far can a bear walk upright? Say, for example (and I’m not sure this is even possible) that an adolescent bear manages to stick both of his front paws in a couple of small animal traps and mangles them pretty badly. Will the bear try to walk around on its hind legs? How long could such a bear get around before joint and muscle damage ruins its mobility completely?
Sofa:
The bear doesn’t have to stand on its hind legs to look like a sasquatch.
I’m trying to find a picture of a bear on all fours looking straight at the camera with it’s head held high.
What you see is the head, the slope of the shoulders, and maybe the front and back feet. A bear’s front and back legs aren’t symmetrical. The back legs are bigger and more powerful. The front legs look like arms. The illusion is pretty compelling. It’s even more so in imperfect light, or where the bear is partially hidden by foliage or cover (which would be usually in the woods.) Perceptions are selective, and if you identify the figure as a sasquatch, that is how you will tend to see it through the imperfect data your eyes are feeding you.
I have seen this with my own eyes while hunting. “Holy shit! It’s bigfoot!” Then it turns sideways and walks away. “No. That was a bear.”
I really can’t stress enough how difficult it is to visualize animals in the Bush, and how often the light and shadow will play tricks on you.
I’ve stared for ten minutes at what I was sure was a deer. I could see it clearly, see its eyes, its breathing. As I stalked slowly closer, it resolved into some branches and shadows. Nothing more.
Animals count on camoflage, and our minds are apt to pick the shapes we are looking for out of the light and perspective of the woods. If you think there is a sasquatch forty yards away behind a bush, it’s not too unlikely that you will see it.
This is one of the reasons why hunters wear flourescent orange. It’s not that a hunter looks like a deer (we don’t.) It’s what people want to see when they’re out hunting in the woods. And every year hunters still get shot despite the flourescent orange by people who swear they saw a deer.
My scariest moment occured when I saw a UFO in the fog in the field behind the farm I lived on. I could see the huge shape hovering ten feet above the ground and make out the individual line of rectangular windows. I almost crapped my pants. I finally saw that it was just light on the fog, and probably the reflection from a plane far overhead.
This kind of stuff happens all the time. The woods are a chaotic sensory rich environment that our brains push into patterns.
It takes little or no suggestion to see a bear as a gorrillalike hominid whether or not it’s on two feet. Bears are big.
Oh, Bigfoot.
There are so many interesting hard-to-find animals- like the American cheetah, which left an ample fossil record- hell, one was shot & skinned in 1930’s.
If a bigfoot-esque fossil (e.g., Gigantopithecus) had ever been found in the Americas, the Bigfoot issue wouldn’t be silly (no, it’s not descended from an extinct Amazonian giant monkey).
Believe me, if Amerindians had ever co-existed with the likes of Bigfoot, he would be remembered in many. many. legends- as the Pleistocene teratorns (wingspan 6-8m) were remembered as the Thunderbird, etc.
No physical evidence + no real folkloric history + no fossil record = silly.
I am firmly pro-bear.
Wow, I bet that was disappointing. Were they good eatin’, at least? 
All it proves is that they found some “unknown primate” hair.
I am, too. Except in cases where the mother’s life is endangered.
(Emphasis mine.)
Muhahaha! I DO exist, and I’m coming to steal your baby and feed it to a DINGO!
“And have you actually been to Montana, or anywhere else out West? Seen how dense the human population really is? Still think it’s possible for a large creature that a lot of people have actually looked for, intensively, to somehow find a hiding place anyway?”
The Western United States are the LEAST densely populated:
Alaska: 1 person per square mile
Wyoming: 5 persons per square mile
Montana: 6 persons per square mile
Idaho: 12 persons per square mile
Utah: 21 persons per square mile
Oregon: 29 persons per square mile
Washington: 73 persons per square mile
IF Bigfoot exists, these are the states where it is LEAST likely to be seen. Sorry, but your argument doesn’t hold water.
No, you misunderstand. Look at the maximum radius between places where people regularly go, and see how much room is left for anything large to sty hidden. It isn’t that much, anywhere in the Northwest.
Did you read any of the news stories earlier this year about the death of the guy who faked the footprints and movies? Did that have any more effect on you than did the explanations by the crop-circle hoaxers on the UFO cultists?
I’m skeptical as to Bigfoot’s existence, so I’m not trying to prove it one way or another.
The population densities are highest in the urban centers of each of those states (“where people regularly go” as you put it). I doubt there are many bears seen in downtown Billings, Montana, but that leaves a whole bunch of Montana where there are, indeed, grizzly bears.
It doesn’t even say that. All it says is that they haven’t been able to match the hair to a known animal (without any information on what samples they have available to test it against). And there doesn’t seem to be any actual “published report” on the web, just the very brief Times article and other articles that picked it up. And Sykes, the expert who is quoted, apparently has not responded to e-mails asking for additional information (according to other sites).
If this is “some of the best evidence yet” for the existence of the Yeti, as the article says, it’s pretty weak. The article is datelined June 2001; one might presume that if there were actually strong evidence it would have been published by now in a scientific journal.
In the 1970’s, there was said to be a mysterious white deer living in the canyons inside the city of San Diego. Dozens of people swore they’d seen it. Others said it was impossible. Deer live in herds; deer require vast grazing range; a “white deer” seems awfully mystical; no one could produce a clear photograph, etc. etc.
It tooks years, but the deer’s existence was finally demonstrated. (The creature was, alas, killed during an attempt to capture it.)
Could a population of large anthropoids exist in the wooded NorthWest? I guess… I think it’s unlikely… But I was one of those who doubted the White Deer…
Still, we’ve had too many faked photos and faked footprints. Even if the critter is real, a bunch of hoaxers and jokers are out there, tainting the evidence, and making the facts that much harder to discover.
Trinopus
Of course Bigfoot exists. I read it on the internet.
And grizzlies get seen there regularly, too. But not Bigfoot.
THe Patterson film, as well as the story surrounding it, is full of holes. There is a consensus in hollywood that Planet of the Apes make-up guy Chambers made the suit and, either with Patterson’s help or by hoaxing Patterson, is responsible for the suit. Arguments go back and forth but the conclusion is far from confirmed. Many experts have noted the gait of the beast in the film is too exagerrated to be real. Chambers denies invovlement, but has been known to be quite capable of keeping a secret. He was also involved in another Bigfoot hoax
There’s a host of other problems as well. Patterson was a bigfoot bookwriter and stood to profit from any such film ( and he did!). The timing of getting the film was very convenient since Patterson was about to be arrested for outstanding debts on the camera. Ther’s also the unexplicable actions of him and his crew after the filming (“Let’s go after it!”“Nah”)
Like many old UFO “films”, I find it amusing that in the age of encroaching suburbia and a preponderance of video cameras, that no further such evidence has been taped.
True, you haven’t seen any moose, and there are others who havn’t seen any moose. But we have moose in zoos, and every year hunting permits are issued to moose hunters- some good number of whom come back with moose. No one has ever come back with a Bigfoot.
Those recent animals you mention are very similar to other species. Thus, if a white naturalist is told of a large pheasant-like bird that the natives occ see and eat, he could be excused by thinking it was a already known species. Same with the deer.
Bigfoot isn’t close at all to any other species in North America.
Then, dudes here have mentioned Indian legends prior to this century. Show me. Cite? Because I looked for some, and except for very vague legends of a monster that could be just about anything, there are none. Indeed, this is strong evidence that Bigfoot does not exist- there are no Indian legends or rock paintings of such a critter.
Wow…honestly…I did not expect this kind of response…sorry for not replying sooner…life gets in the way. for the most part i posted the above list to guage a reaction from those with no actual intrest in the subject.So for that I thank you.And if you do have an intrest no matter how periphrial no offense intended.The card was not my idea so I can claim no credit for it it was presented by another as a means for dealing with scoff-tics( read sceptics).Debate is a great and fine thing,but without practical application… in no certain terms how can one expect to guage the real world ideas and beliefs of the target audience .(just my opinion mind you )…for some of the data requested above in regards to the proof visit the BFRO (bigfoot field researchers orginization ) or Bigfoot encounters… not so much lunacy as pertains to many websites in this field of intrest.and some very interesting theorys regarding bigfoot/sasquatch…for the most part…im a sceptic myself…but willing to keep an open mind on the matter in regards to the evidence…some of it is quite compelling…if you but take the time to read it. again thank you for your replies and thought …many of them mirror my own…and others give me pause to reflect and think upon it… Raythe
So, you just came in here, tossed “Bigfoot exists!” at us to see what we would say, but without having the slightest intention of debating it, and you’re responding to our rebuttal of your “Bigfoot exists!” points (which were apparently Copy and Pasted wholesale from someone else) by saying, “Go look it up for yourself on these Bigfoot websites”–and now you’re going away again?
Fine with me.
And may I say, on behalf of the rest of us, how much we all appreciate being told that debate has no practical application–here in a forum called “Great Debates”. :rolleyes: