Sasquatch revisited

[MelCthefirst]

Does anyone have any good links or resources in regard to Sasquatch (Yeti, BigFoot etc) 2003? There was a resurgance in interest, searching and somewhat of a buy-in by the scientific community in 2001 but I can’t find anything, other than sightings, that is more recent than this.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

Well, since Ray Wallace, the original Bigfoot spotter, died in November 2002, and his family admitted it had all been a hoax, that kind of put the kibosh on any more resurgences of interest.
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2843/2_27/98252919/p1/article.jhtml

One of the leading figures of the North American Bigfoot legend died on November 26, 2002, at the age of 84. Ray Wallace was the subcontractor on a road-building operation in Humboldt County, California, in the summer of 1958 when giant footprints began appearing overnight on the freshly cleared road. Tracks would appear intermittently in the area, attracting amazed onlookers and reporters eager for a good mystery to write about. Upon his death, his family confirmed what had been suspected for decades–Ray Wallace spawned Bigfoot with a practical joke that got out of hand.

Wallace’s nephew displayed the oversized wooden feet that Ray and his brother Wilbur had used to mystify and tantalize the road crew, Bigfoot hunters, and the public.

[pcroughn]

I’m not sure how Ray Wallace got the title of “the original Bigfoot spotter”. This thing has been spotted for thousands of years, all over the world.

If you want a good link, try:

www.lorencoleman.com

Paul

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HEE-HEE-HOO-HA-HA!
Ok.
Here’s A Sasquatch Link For Ya!

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

You remember that famous film clip where you see the blurry image of a Sasquatch striding diagonally away from the camera, into the woods? I always thought it would be a great gag for an SNL-type comedy show to have someone film the Sasquatch in a similarly blurry manner, and from a similar perspective, only I"d have him in the middle of a large city. Perhaps hailing a taxi or something like that.

[Mr.Blue_Sky]

What’s amazing is the number of people who still think that original footage is of a real Bigfoot.

[Fish]

You didn’t hear much about Sasquatch over the past few years because he had a terrible 2000 season coming off of the 1999 lockout. He showed up to training camp 50 pounds overweight, and it was obvious he was out of training, because he was easily winded at a simple shootaround.

The rumors began to fly that Bigfoot would get traded, and naturally this caused his numbers for the 2000 season to plummet (12.2 points, 2.3 rebounds). Eventually Sasquatch was let go at the end of the season, allegedly for breach of contract, although there was no dispute, only a quiet settlement.

Bigfoot tried a few endorsement deals (the Bigfoot Grill, Henry Bigfoot’s Private Reserve, Monster Track Shoes) before vowing to get into shape for the 2005 season. He was looked at by the Cavaliers and given a physical by the team doctor, and rumor has it that the Cavs might drop the Loch Ness Monster at power forward to come under the salary cap and move Sasquatch in if the right deal can be made.

[Turbo_Dog]

Try http://www.bfro.net

[Janx]

*Duuude *
You are in luck! I just read from the Skeptical Inquirer Scenes from a Bigfoot Conference

On September 27, [2003] about 200 Bigfoot enthusiasts gathered at an unlikely venue-a dim, cavernous nightclub above a restaurant in Jeannette, Pennsylvania… Sponsored by the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Society (PBS), the fifth Annual East Coast Bigfoot Conference/Expo gave believers a forum to swap ideas and information about the possibility of sasquatches living in their own back yards.

Among other truly advanced advances in Big foot research was the radical new theory
by Paul Johnson, a chemistry professor at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh…

Johnson then unveiled his startling theory: Bigfoot is a “quantum animal” that moves freely between the real world as we know it and a “quantum world” outside the reach of conventional physical laws… [and] … Johnson acknowledged that his ideas are unconventional and pointed out that nothing in quantum physics supports the idea that an animal as large as Bigfoot could behave like an electron. He noted that many physicists would reject his ideas and even went so far as to say that, as a chemist, “I have no idea what I am talking about” when it comes to quantum physics.

Now I tell you what, if that isn’t cutting edge / pushing the envelope hard core brand new information then I don’t know what is!

Other tid bits we glean from the conference:

Bigfoot enthusiasts these days tend to fall into two camps: those convinced that the creature is merely a flesh-and-blood animal yet unknown to science, and those who believe it is a paranormal entity. Both camps were represented at the conference, although a certain amount of tension between the two was apparent.

Perhaps the tension that was apparent had to do with the local pharmacy running out of lithium that weekend.

Longtime UFO researcher Stan Gordon, who led off after PBS Director Eric Altman’s opening remarks, seemed to straddle both camps… Like many researchers of the paranormal, Gordon is convinced that the federal government has a keen interest in his efforts. He told attendees that after he began studying Bigfoot, a “government agent” called him and requested to be notified if a body were found. Gordon said he later met with this agent, but would not name him or the government department the agent represented. He then told a rambling tale about three men who spotted a white Bigfoot and were later harassed by someone who claimed to be an FBI agent.

Wow, what we have here is a mix of the famous Men In Black/UFO and big foot, That is for sure an advance in Bigfoot information.

Gordon, who was pressed into service at the last minute to fill in for a speaker who couldn’t make it, readily conceded that he’s not a Bigfoot expert. These days he spends most of his time promoting his video about the “Kecksburg Incident”-western Pennsylvania’s answer to the Roswell, New Mexico, UFO crash.

I will post up dates after the next convention.

hOoooooo Kaaaay.

[Starbury]

There has also been some more recent coverage of Bigfoot after he was shot and killed by Montana police: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3893063/

That story first appeared on December 30, in an issue of Weekly World News (with a photo on the front page).

Tragic.

There’s also a message board devoted to Bigfoot: http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php

[mnemosyne]

http://www.uoguelph.ca/mediarel/archives/003523.html

A Sasquatch expert came to our university a while back - I went to the lecture, and while he made you want to believe that there might be one (his enthusiasm was somewhat contagious) the fact is, there was little more than drawings as evidence. He did have some plaster castings of footprints (BIG ones) and one appeared to have ridges in it, like flesh lines. Of course, it’s hard to say how valid that is -it could be easy to fake, I think. Anyways, his main point is that the search for the sasquatch is limited by funding - no one in the scientific community wants to pay to analyse, to travel to points where sightings were made, etc. He also made the point that, invariably, despriptions of the sasquatch had the same features, from people all over the continent. Similar heights, small, apparently neckless head, arm length with respect to the rest of the body was the same, etc.

Interesting talk, but I don’t think anyone there was convinced. The link above has a link to his website, and you can probably Google his name for more info.

[pcroughn]

It amazes me how folk, that claim open-minded, suddenly scoff when the mere mention of Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti or the like. Does this not fly in the face of scientific discussion? Are we so arrogant that we believe that we know everything? Is it not possible that there are some aspects of this planet that we are not yet privy to?

Sure, it isn’t every day that a new species of large mammal is found. But it isn’t never, either. In the last ten years, Vietnam has yielded three new species all by itself. (http://biobulletin.amnh.org/A/1/2/) From the Democratic Republic of the Congo comes [perhaps, the jury’s still out on this one] a new species of chimp (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0414_030314_strangeape.html).

Giant squid and gorillas were both thought to be the stuff of legends until the last century. (http://www.berggorilla.de/english/gjournal/texte/24beringe.html) Is it so hard to swallow the fact that an animal, as intelligent as a Sasquatch might be, has eluded us for this long?

Yet one considers the possibility and is immediately branded a crackpot. Now I know how Columbus, Newton and the Wright brothers felt.
But on to specifics:

I think that Janx forgot about a few experts:

Jane Goodall is a legend in the field of primate research. She has worked with apes for longer than I have been alive. Jane Goodall believes in a possibility of Bigfoot. (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%7E53%7E1089877%7E,00.html)

“People from very different backgrounds and different parts of the world have described very similar creatures behaving in similar ways and uttering some strikingly similar sounds,” she [Ms. Goodall] said. “As far as I am concerned, the existence of hominids of this sort is a very real probability.”

Who among us claims to be more qualified than Jane Goodall? It surely isn’t me.

Jimmy Chilcutt is a fingerprint technician at the Conroe Police Department.

“He is highly regarded by agents of the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and state and local law enforcement agencies because of his innovative techniques and ability to find fingerprints where others fail.” (http://www.rense.com/politics6/fing.htm) or (http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/news/debunk.html)

One day Jimmy decided to debunk this whole Bigfoot mess. He went out and looked at casts. Jimmy is now a believer.

It is easy to quote quacks when attempting to dismiss an argument. But Janx is not alone. Starbury was kind enough to point out an article in the “Weekly World News”. Perhaps Starbury missed the articles in “National Geographic”, “Popular Science”, “Scientific American” or “Smithsonian”. Or would that be a point for the wrong team?

And boy, that Ray Wallace sure got around. His footprints have been found all over the world! Even today, after his death, he’s still out there…making tracks. That level of dedication is rarely seen now a days.

And what’s amazing to me, Mr. Blue Sky, is that you belittle people, regarding the Patterson film. Do you have some proof that it is, without a doubt, fake?

So go ahead and “BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HEE-HEE-HOO-HA-HA!” all you want. When we find Bigfoot, I’m going to tell him about it. And then we’ll see…

[UncleBeer]

It is easy to quote quacks when attempting to dismiss an argument.

It’s also easy to quote quacks when attempting to support an argument. Quacks like Loren Coleman. Who is, or was at one time, a member of these boards. You may read his posts in this thread which discusses this Staff Report about cryptozoology. He exhibits many of the tell-tale signs of crankdom, one of which you yourself have displayed by invoking Newton.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

In the last ten years, Vietnam has yielded three new species all by itself. From the Democratic Republic of the Congo comes [perhaps, the jury’s still out on this one] a new species of chimp.

But–all those places are places that up till now, have been pretty much closed to Western scientists and researchers, for various reasons, usually “war”. So the only reason these “new” species are turning up is because Western scientists are finally being allowed in there.

And also because the locals are beginning to understand that sometimes those “new” animals are worth more on the hoof to Westerners than they are worth in the cooking pot, so when they spot one, they’re more likely to report it to The Powers That Be, and the next thing you know, a team of Western researchers shows up and starts paying them to take them into the jungle and show them the “new” animal.

However, Sasquatch (and the Florida swamp ape) are supposed to exist in places that have been thoroughly covered, for at least the last 100 years, by scientists, researchers, wildlife biology graduate students working on a thesis, backpackers, hikers, birdwatchers, park rangers, firejumpers, farmers, ranchers, and just plain folks who happen to live there. How come NONE of them has ever come forward with an unquestioned bit of home video footage, or with unquestioned footprints or photographs, or with scat? How come NONE of the local Native American tribes with legends of Bigfoot, who might be presumed to know where he hangs out, have come forward to point the way to researchers, and thus cash in? “Visit Beautiful Podunk, Home of Bigfoot!!” I can see it now on billboards all over the Pacific Northwest. There’s money to be made off Bigfoot–if only someone could find him. The fact that no one has speaks volumes to me.

As for Ray Wallace’s footprints appearing all over the world, well, yeah, that does bespeak a tremendous amount of determination on someone’s part. Ever since Ray’s nephew was photographed for the media holding one of the models, I suppose there are people all over the world who were able to make decent copies from that and get to work making footprints.

Does this not fly in the face of scientific discussion?

The thing about “scientific” discussion is, it requires evidence. Because otherwise, without any kind of “evidence”, it’s not a “scientific” discussion–it’s just “shooting the breeze”.

[UncleBeer]

As for the Patterson film, well, some people in the Bigfoot community still believe it to be genuine. Many no longer do. Such as Bigfoot tracker Cliff Crook who thinks he’s found evidence in the film of a support device to hold the Bigfoot costume erect.
http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-03/bigfoot.html

[Janx]

:dubious:

** pcroughn ** wrote…

I think that Janx forgot about a few experts: Jane Goodall is a legend in the field of primate research. She has worked with apes for longer than I have been alive. Jane Goodall believes in a possibility of Bigfoot.

I believe in the possibility as well but after 50 years of research there has not been one credible shred of evidence to support its existence, none, nada, zip.

Back to the skeptical Inquirer again:

Bigfoot at 50Evaluating a Half-Century of Bigfoot Evidence I really think you might be interested in reading this.

** pcroughn ** wrote…

Who among us claims to be more qualified than Jane Goodall?

Well, I’m sure Ms. Goodall is an authority in the area of primates, however until she coughs up, say,
A big foot body, or a skeleton, or some fecal mater, or some un-identifiable hair samples or something
my BS meter will remain on high.
** pcroughn ** wrote…

One day Jimmy decided to debunk this whole Bigfoot mess. He went out and look
ed at casts. Jimmy is now a believer.

Oh ok, so this expert in * human * fingerprinting looks at some casts of * non human foot prints * and decides the beast is real.

About foot print casts…

The real question is what the tracks are evidence of. In many cases, the answer is clear: they are evidence of hoaxing…Contrary to many Bigfoot enthusiasts’ claims, Bigfoot tracks are not particularly consistent and show a wide range of variation (Dennett 1996). Some tracks have toes that are aligned, others show splayed toes. Most alleged Bigfoot tracks have five toes, but some casts show creatures with two, three, four, or even six toes (see figure 1). Surely all these tracks can’t come from the same unknown creature, or even species of creatures. … In one case, Krantz claimed as one of the gold standards of Bigfoot tracks a print that “passed all my criteria, published and private, that distinguishes sasquatch tracks from human tracks and from fakes” (Krantz 1992). He further agreed that it had all the signs of a living foot, and that no human foot could have made the imprint. Michael R. Dennett, investigating for the Skeptical Inquirer, tracked down the anonymous construction worker who supplied the Bigfoot print. The man admitted faking the tracks himself to see if Krantz could really detect a fake (Dennett 1994).

To look at the whole thing from a skeptical point of view does not necessarily mean the I will never believe the creature exists, only that for the time being I haven’t seen any thing to convince me that it does. Al the credible magazines you have sighted above still have not offered any real evidence,
They simply table the question, “is there something out there?”

Ultimately, the biggest problem with the argument for the existence of Bigfoot is that no bones or bodies have been discovered. This is really the 800-pound Bigfoot on the researchers’ backs, and no matter how they explain away the lack of other types of evidence, the simple fact remains that, unlike nearly every other serious “scientific” pursuit, they can’t point to a live or dead sample of what they’re studying. If the Bigfoot creatures across the United States are really out there, then each passing day should be one day closer to their discovery. The story we’re being asked to believe is that thousands of giant, hairy, mysterious creatures are constantly eluding capture and discovery and have for a century or more. At some point, a Bigfoot’s luck must run out: one out of the thousands must wander onto a freeway and get killed by a car, or get shot by a hunter, or die of natural causes and be discovered by a hiker. Each passing week and month and year and decade that go by without definite proof of the existence of Bigfoot make its existence less and less likely.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

Perhaps Starbury missed the articles in “National Geographic”, “Popular Science”, “Scientific American” or “Smithsonian”.

I’ll bet you a nickel that those articles weren’t saying, “Bigfoot exists”. They were asking, “Does Bigfoot exist?”

Just because a mainstream magazine chooses to run an article speculating on whether a thing exists doesn’t prove that the thing exists.

I’ll bet that all those magazines have also run articles on ESP (well, maybe not the Smithsonian, but…), but anyway, the fact that they may have run articles on ESP that doesn’t prove that ESP exists.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

I note that the OP is from New Zealand, & therefore seems unlikely to have first-hand knowledge of the North American wilderness.

Well, MelCthefirst, you got that in common with Goodall as well, because she knows next to nothing about the North American ecosystem.

Of all primates, only the Baboon and the Human thrive in areas without significant fruit resources. There are limited wild fruit resources in Europe and North America, compared with Sub-Sahaharan Africa, or Southeast Asia. So, we’re not a promising site for primates.

Most of North America has an annual hunting season for wild game, in the Autumn. Men, familiar with the outdoors and skilled in tracking & stalking wild game, go out by the thousands, every year, armed with shotgun, rifle, carbine. crossbow, or longbow. We’ve been doing this throughout the Colonial period, the Pre-Civil War Era, the Golden Age of the American West (would the Mountain Men and trappers have failed to catch one? I don’t think so.), through two World Wars, & into the current Postmodern Era. Nobody has ever bagged one yet! If they had, they could have been rich & famous overnight. I’ve lived in the Wisconsin countryside, & in the mountains of East Tennessee. I’ve known the outdoorsmen who live there, thrive, & love the back country. Believe me: if Bigfoot existed, they’d have shot one by now.

There ain’t no such animal! :smack:

[pcroughn]

UncleBeer: When did I quote Loren Coleman? All I did was answer MelCthefirst’s request. Just because you don’t have a point, doesn’t give you the right to invent one.

And as far as I go, I think you should know me better before you start making assumptions regarding my mental state. Again, you’re trying to make nothing sound like something.

And true, a lot of folk discount the Patterson film. I’m not convinced, myself. But even if we KNOW that it is a fake, it doesn’t mean that such a creature does not exist. Besides how does what Cliff Crook ‘thinks’ he ‘might’ have found discount anything?

Duck Duck Goose: True, Vietnam was not always the friendliest place to go to. But neither is Bigfoot country. You have obviously never been to the temperate rainforests of the Pacific Northwest. Sure Seattle’s OK, but nobody’s seeing Bigfoot there. The impenetrable forests of the Rocky Mountains still hold many mysteries. (I don’t suppose you’ve been traipsing through the everglades, either?)

I don’t think anyone is claiming that all Bigfoot sightings are valid. Hell, I’m not claiming any are. But there’s enough evidence to warrant investigation. And certainly enough to warrant conversation.

“…places that have been thoroughly covered, for at least the last 100 years, by scientists, researchers, wildlife biology graduate students working on a thesis, backpackers, hikers, birdwatchers, park rangers, firejumpers, farmers, ranchers, and just plain folks who happen to live there. How come NONE …” Where do you get none? Plenty of sightings come from these very people. Who do think is making all of the sightings? Gangbangers in South Central? Manhattan housewives? The guy running Space Mountain at Disneyworld?

Ray Wallace and his nephew and everyone they know could not have made all of the tracks. Not even if they devoted their lives to it. What about the tracks made before the nephew appeared on the news? Did Ray & Co. travel the globe laying track? Did they beat expeditions to the top of the Himalayas? Did they beat the 49ers to California? Did he beat the loggers to Washington and Oregon. You’re right, Ray Wallace did make some tracks and I’m sure some people thought they were real, but that doesn’t make all tracks fake.

Keep the nickel, yes, those articles did not say Bigfoot exists. What they did do is debate the facts without saying things like “BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HEE-HEE-HOO-HA-HA!, Some idiots think this thing is real.”

Janx: After 50 years, there has been plenty of credible evidence. There are photos, video, footprints, eyewitness accounts, hair and etceteras. What you’re looking for is “proof”. And granted, no proof exists, hence this debate. But I’ve never seen proof of black holes, either. I’ve seen a lot of evidence, though.

Ms. Goodall is going to kick your ass.

I am an avid hiker. I’m sure others, who view this, spend a lot of time in the woods as well. Now I’m pretty sure black bears exist. I have never seen a dead bear in the wild. I’ve asked a lot of others and as far as I can tell, no one I know has ever seen one, either. I’m still sure they exist.

In fact, I’ve never even seen a living bear in the woods. I know some have, but I haven’t. I’ve seen them in my trash, but not in the woods. I’m guessing they avoid us when ever possible. If a bear can do it, why couldn’t a more evolved animal?

In general:

Look, I’m the last guy to say there is a Bigfoot. I hope there is, but I don’t know there is. But there is enough evidence to look and at the least talk about it. MelCthefirst asked a simple question. There is no reason to chastise him or her for doing so. There are plenty of other threads in these forums. No one has to make a special trip in here to ridicule.

[pcroughn]

Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor wrote:

Well, MelCthefirst, you got that in common with Goodall as well, because she knows next to nothing about the North American ecosystem.

I am curious how you know this? What information are you using to judge what Jane Goodall knows or doesn’t know. I’m guessing that your history doesn’t look as good as this:

http://www.janegoodall.com/jane/cv.html

MS. Goodall is gonna kick your ass, too.

Besides, this creature is seen all over the world.

Of all primates, only the Baboon and the Human thrive in areas without significant fruit resources. There are limited wild fruit resources in Europe and North America, compared with Sub-Sahaharan Africa, or Southeast Asia. So, we’re not a promising site for primates.

I don’t know what you’re definition of ‘fruit’ is, but the realm of edible fruits goes far beyond what is in the produce section at the local Piggly Wiggly.

And where is your information (regarding the distribution of primates and there relationship to fruit resources) coming from? Can you site a source? Or are you just making stuff up?