I want to know of some good strategy style (not shoot em ups) wargames for the PC. Modern warfare, ancient, Civil War, whatever. Any suggestions?
My first questions would be to try to trim this down. You say that the time period is irrelevant- ok, we can work with that.
Do you want real-time or turn-based?
Small unit tactics or grand national strategy?
Micromanaging units down to the fuel and ammo remaining for your 103rd armored division, or a more abstracted high-level game?
Recent games or classics from the ages?
Popular bestsellers or unrecognized gems?
Turn based, I think
Hmm, good question. Let’s say I am willing to try either type.
Leaning more toward the latter.
No prefernece here. As long as the game is entertaining and challenging.
See above.
So the preferences seem to be turn-based and more abstracted. The top three recommendations off the top of my head - I’ll let people chime in if they’re absolute fans of any of these titles.
Panzer General 2 - this was a 1995 title, I think, but I still play it. It’s turn based strategy, but leans more towards the micromanaging. It’s not overly complex in the detail, but I enjoy it.
Jagged Alliance 2 - turn based tactics, in that you control small groups of mercenaries. The only micromanaging is inventory control. The engine is good, the storyline doesn’t get in the way, and I’m eagerly waiting for Sir-Tech to finally produce and release JA3. This is almost more of an RPG than a wargame, but given that 99% of the game takes place in small-unit battles, I’ll recommend it.
Master Of Orion 1 and 2 - futuristic space strategy. Creating colonies, building fleets, blowing up the other guys. The tactical space combats can be either very detailed or very hands-off – usually I’ll go into a combat and then turn on the AI to let them fight it out. (Not always, though.)
I just bought the PC version of RISK, you know, the classic board game. It’s really, really good… so many options to make it even better than the original, and every review I’ve read of it was very good.
Even though I hate Atomic Games for dropping Mac support, I still think the Close Combat series is the best overall war game. It most faithfully reproduces the experiences we board-gamers sought when playing games like Squad Leader. Gamers used to squabble for an hour over each SL turn that represented 15 seconds of real time, but now the computer handles all the rules arbitration, and it can take place in real time. Yay!
I must, however, apologize for a suggesting a CC game feature that was adopted by the developer. I told him about how I used to play Squad Leader mano a mano, each side had only one unit, a flamethrower. Those games were a riot. Unfortunately, the inclusion of flamethrowers into CC is my least favorite aspect of the game, it didn’t quite work out how I thought it would. I regret having ever mentioned it, I don’t think he would have included flamethrowers if I hadn’t suggested it. Ooops.
I like Close Combat but not everyone goes for real-time strategy games (I have CC5, which is certainly real-time).
The original Panzer General is superb, and has the added advantage of being considered ‘abandonware’. It’s easy enough to download from the web, not too big a download (the graphics aren’t cutting edge), easy to play and there are a huge amount of custom scenarios and equipment files to download.
Allied General is also widely available on the web, and is a slightly modified version where you play the Allies (you can play the Allies in PG, but the Germans always get the first turn). Okay, but not quite PG.
Panzer General 3D: don’t bother. Flashy but boring after a while.
There’s also a decent Ardennes (World War II) strategy called The Ardennes Offensive which has been re-released as freeware on the web. Not as fun as PG, but for a small download and no cash it’s a very, very good game.
What don’t you like about the flamethrowers? The idea of them (combined with the pretty realistic execution)? The game is a little graphic (maybe sonic is a better word here). The screams of “MEDIC”, barely audible over the pounding 50 cal guns, can get to you (at least to me) after a while. And I guess the flamethrowers are pretty bad in that way.
It seems to me that the flamethrowers don’t work like they should. You should be able to loft the fuel in a high arc over obstacles and zap people that you don’t have an LOS on, but since you can’t get an LOS, you can’t target. And the flamethrower squad is far too resistant to damage, you just can’t kill them before they toast everyone. You should just be able to lob a grenade in their general neighborhood, hit the fuel tank, and they blow up. But no grenades in CC either.
In fact, that’s what we discovered eventually with Squad Leader. The flame vs. flame battles either ended up with all fuel exhausted and the entire battlefield aflame from trying to flush someone out, but still nobody dead, or else whoever was stupid enough to expose themselves first got zapped right away. We ended up usually playing one squad with only grenades vs. the flamer squad.
But the CC flamethrower graphics and sounds are really cool. Scares the hell out of ya, if you don’t know it’s coming.
BTW, thanks crusoe, I didn’t know CC5 had shipped, I actually play these on my Mac with Virtual PC, and they run OK. I played CC4 a lot, but my CD got scratched and they want $15 to replace it.
Hang on, let me check that. I thought I had CC5, but the CD just says “Close Combat: Invasion Normandy”, and I’ve had it for some time. Maybe I have a different game.
I was a little disappointed; I was hoping to recreate some of the British vs German armoured battles around Caen, but it’s 99% infantry combat in the hedgerows of the Cotentin. The flamethrower teams don’t seem that good to me: there’s only two men, so a flanking assault can pick them out very quickly. They also only get four or five shots.
Well, that would be CC5 because CC4 was Russian Front. I’ll have to go pick it up, with luck it will be in the bargain bin already. Maybe they worked on the play balance, which would be really nice. IIRC, flamethrowers appeared first in CC3, which was lots of house to house fighting, and it seemed like the flamers had an endless supply of fuel. The play balance seemed way skewed in favor of whoever had flamethrowers.
But of my all-time favorite war games, the original Mac-only V for Victory, Utah Beach was the best. I thought Atomic said they were redoing Utah Beach for CC5, I guess I’ll find out soon enough. Gotta pick it up. Hey, maybe we should play some head to head online games!
Anyway, to return to the OP, has anyone played WWII:Online? I heard about it, it’s supposed to be a crossplatform massive multiplayer online WWII scenario, and you can be air, ground, or armored forces. Sounds cool.
Sid Meier’s Gettysburg or Antietem. Simply the best Civil War games ever produced.
For a good WWII game with mulitplayer, get Axis and Allies for the PC.
The game you want to get is Europa Universalis. Massive high level military strategy game where you take over a European country in 1492 and run with it. Great fun.
Chas.E: WWII Online is a great idea; unfortunately, it doesn’t work yet. Try it in a year. And I LOVED the V For Victory series.
I enjoyed Shogun: Total War. You take control of a Japanese general and attempt to become Shogun of Japan by taking out all your rivals. It is a pretty cool game.
Marc
Bzzzzttt!!! Wrong answer Dudeski! Close Combat III, The Russian Front. The best in the series. V is fun though.
Panzer General II is good. People’s General is Ok.
Gotta second Shogun. Way bitchin’ field game, but the strategy part is a little rudimentary and the AI is sometimes unfair. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.
If you want to go completely into RTS (which you don’t), Homeworld: Cataclysm is still where it’s at for me. Think of a good version of Battlestar Galactica, man, and you’ve got the concept.
I find myself coming back to Battleground: Waterloo quite a lot. I will take Hougoumont, dammit!
A good high-level (specifically, operational level), turn-based game is The Operational Art of War. By “operational”, it is meant that the scale is such that tactical ranges of most weapons do not factor into play. Defintely not action-based, but very strategic.
oh yeah, I forgot about the Bastogne game, I guess that was CC4. I liked the Bastogne scenario, up to a point. It had cool weapons like rocket launchers, and lots of fun armor battles, but was too easy to lose in the supply phase. I dunno, I still think CC1 was the best, despite its cruder graphics.
Another series that’s now considered freeware (even by the original company) is the Steel Panthers series. It’s real-time, not turn-based, but pretty damn good (and the original, SP1, has hundreds of additional scenarios at http://www.thewargamer.net). The more advanced Steel Panthers: World at War is also freeware, but it’s a 300Mb+ download, which my 56kb dial-up can’t handle.