Recommendations for a definitive Indo-European linguistics book?

All,

Short version: I am looking for the definitive book on the history of European languages which will give the broadest possible background to someone with general interest in peoples, history, cultures, and languages, but without extensive *a priori *knowledge of the field or the time to devote to becoming a linguist.


Long version: I am a scientist, generally well-read, and interested in the history of science, and history in general. Many of my interests have converged to the point where a more general knowledge of languages would be useful:

As a biologist (and for science in general), many concepts and developments are clearer with a general feel for Greek and Latin word origins (hell, as a general English speaker, Greek, Latin, German, and French knowledge is very helpful). My work involves taxonomy, so more Greek and Latin, plus the perusal of species descriptions published over the last three centuries in Latin, Spanish, Russian, German, French, and Italian; thus, I have acquired the ability to transliterate and/or limited site-read some of these on a general-concept level. (I was recently in Vienna, and was able to get along fairly well reading signs just based on general feel and familiarity, and can get general meaning out of, say, Dante.)

I love Tolkien, and his works contain concepts derived from Old English, Germanic, Welsh, Finnish, Semitic, Runic, etc. Moreover, I love history, the history of science, and the classics; Einstein, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo, Brahe, Bede, Chaucer, Beowulf, Dante, Goethe, Virgil, Homer, Plato, Aristotle–not that I need to read all of them in the original, but seeing the originals and being able to get something out of them is very interesting. And, of course, the beginnings of Western civilization are all about Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Phoenician, Sumerian, etc.

I’m of Irish heritage and enjoy Celtic folk music, and am thus interested in Irish, Manx, Brenton, etc. My other ancestry is German/Austrian/Polish, and so I’m interested in Germanic and Slavic. I have several Dutch friends, and have considered learning Dutch/German on the theory that they may be the easiest second language for a native English speaker to learn, as they are the most closely related.

However, other than the gestalt intuitive feeling I’ve gotten for recognizing similar words and concepts across related languages, I have no training in linguistics. Two years of high school Spanish, and that’s it (thank you, Mr. Rios). I don’t know a morpheme from a fricative. As a grad student with two jobs, I also have no time to read a dozen linguistics books. So what I’m looking for is a book on, I guess, the history, structure, relationship, similarity, and rules of Indo-European languages, and languages in general, written for non-specialists and providing as much in-depth detail as possible without being overwhelmingly dense. I mean, I’m the kind of nerd who read Simon Winchester’s The Map That Changed the World, The Professor and the Madman, and The Meaning of Everything and got jealous of the 19th Century polymaths who knew a dozen languages. Someone in TMTCtW said that after you learn your first dozen languages, you can pick up any additional language in two weeks. I’m hoping that if you start at the beginning, you can get a feel for all of the Indo-European languages that followed.

It may be naïve for a monolingualist to say, but most language-learning courses I’ve seen seem pretty flawed–they give you a list of words and phrases to memorize when it seems to me that the way to learn a language is to learn its alphabet, structure, and rules first. When I look at a German language course, all I can do is wonder why the articles are “das” here and “ein” there.

So, a hypothetical excerpt from the book I’m looking for would be:

“The Phoenician language had 22 letters because they apparently hadn’t discovered vowels or the letter F. The Greeks borrowed their alphabet and named it ‘alphabet’ and said ‘let’s have 24 letters, and you know what, let’s have some vowels. Also, we’d like to be able to say “ffff,” so let’s have Phi’. And they also invented something called ‘digamma’, which looked a lot like F, but was only used for the number six. And the Romans said, ‘Greek looks pretty good, but let’s split C’s from K’s’. And someone thought spelling ‘Iulius’ with an I was pretty stupid, so they invented the J. Then the Icelanders got it, and decided they needed some On-Beyond-Zebra letters, so they thought up the thorn. And somewhere in there St. Cyril came along and convinced half of Europe to turn their letters backwards and upside down. Also, some Germans made some weird-looking letters of their own, because they were Dwarves from Khazad-Dum…” Etc.

I generally have a pretty good knack at being able to find the important works in a field, through knowing the history of the field, the big names therein, and the terminology. However, lacking knowledge in all three of these areas for this particular topic, my searches have been pretty haphazard and fruitless. The most promising book I’ve found so far is this:

But I don’t know and can’t tell if it’s: a) the book on the field, b) likely to answer the questions posed above, or c) the type that a generally educated novice could use. Any insight on the subject would be appreciated!

(I’m also very interested in Oriental languages, but that’s a whole different problem!)

-b

No linguists in the house, huh?

-b

I don’t think that you’re on the level yet of a textbook on Indo-European linguistics. May I suggest The Unfolding of Language by Guy Deutscher? This is a book for general (but well-read) readers on the evolution of language. It’s very up-to-date and very informative.

How about Mallory’s In Search of the Indo-Europeans? Not very heavy on linguistics, but a good all-round introduction. If you want slightly more linguistics, Baldi’s Introduction to the Indo-European Languages. The Ramat and Ramat you’ve linked to is good but really an introduction for the future specialist rather than the general reader.

Deutscher’s book, which I happen to like very much, studies the workings of languages in general rather than concentrating on Indo-European.

Mallory’s book can be complemented by Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins, by Colin Renfrew.

Mallory also has a doorstop I haven’t read, The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World. You should read the reviewers’ comments on Amazon to see whether it’s what you’re looking for, or if not to pick up some names to search out more on.

A newer book along the same lines as Renfrew’s is The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World, by David W. Anthony. I just received this, though, and haven’t had a chance even to crack it open.

The problem is that there are hundreds of books on the history of English, because those books sell. Only scholars generally want to know about linguistics and the pre-history of English, and so most of those books are scholarly.

If there turns out to be a really good popular book that does all you want, I’d run out and buy it myself. But I’ve never seen it.

*You * may wonder this, but it never occurs to most people. And the answer requires an entire book on language origin and history that has squat all to do with learning the language so you can speak it. They are two separate disciplines and should be taught separately.

Exapno Mapcase writes:

> Deutscher’s book, which I happen to like very much, studies the workings of
> languages in general rather than concentrating on Indo-European.

Exactly, and that’s why I recommended it. It’s clear from the OP that bryanmcc isn’t at the level yet to read a textbook on Indo-European. This book will get him up to speed on historical linguistics.

Thanks, all!

I’ll start with the Deutscher, put the others on my Wish List, and see where I can go from there. From reading the reviews on the various recommended books, it looks like the field still has a lot of uncertainty in it–there is a lot of vitriol and many one-star reviews, with people making awfully personal attacks against people who don’t subscribe to their particular theory…perhaps that’s why it was so difficult to find a book that everyone seems to agree on!

Expando, so you think the best approach to learning a language is the traditional emersion/memorization technique? I’ve always found that very hard, and thought that perhaps a more descriptive approach might be easier, but I haven’t seen any courses which function that way. But I’ve just been going on gut feeling; if an expert says the other way is generally best, then perhaps I just need to suck it up and start memorizing long enough to get over the steep learning curve!

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

First, note that it’s Exapno, not Expando. It’s a somewhat standard reference to Harpo Marx:

http://www.troynovant.com/Franson-3/Marx-Brothers/Harpo-Speaks.html

Second, you can’t learn Indo-European by the immersion/memorization method, since no one speaks it. You want to learn about the Indo-European languages, not learn them in the usual sense. There’s no easy way to do that. You will have to slowly work your way up to textbooks on Indo-European linguistics.

How best to learn a language depends to some extent on what your purpose is in learning. Are you hoping to converse, to read texts, or simply to understand with some depth how the language “works”? (The last isn’t exactly “learning a language,” more like learning about a language, but your OP makes me suspect its more what you’re interested in.)

For conversation, immersion is generally what works best. Unfortunately it doesn’t work for everyone. Unfortunately again, even for those it doesn’t work for, it’s still what works best for them. Some people just don’t have the knack. (I myself lived in a pretty much immersed situation in Japan for a year, and by the end of it I could get an eye test and buy glasses in Japanese, but I couldn’t understand Japanese TV. Other people who had been there for a year did much better than I.)

If all you want to do is read texts, immersion’s not so important. Explicit learning of grammar can get you a lot further. (Not to say you shouldn’t learn grammar explicitly if your purpose is to converse. It’s just that you won’t be able to learn grammar and memorize vocabulary and then suddenly be able to converse–immersion is required to make that remembered knowledge habitually useful.) With an on-line dictionary and mid-level grammatical knowledge, I can translate German texts not too shabbily, albeit pretty slowly for now.

If what you basically want to do is understand the mechanics of a language, (which I used to do alot just for fun) then you seem to be on the right track. Just get some good textbooks in linguistics, and find “grammars” of languages, which are designed specifically to explain the mechanics of languages and are not so much designed to help you learn how to speak or read the language. (Though they can help with the reading if you use them the right way.)

-FrL-

Sorry Expano!

Yeah, this sounds like about what I’m looking for (our definition of “fun” must be warped from the rest of humanity)–I just think languages are generally neat. And there’s this sense of tip-of-the-fingers almost being able to understand things when exposed to things written in Latin, Romance languages, or German. It’s like “that word looks a lot like this English word, and this construction looks a lot like how Spanish sentences are constructed, and this word obviously derived from the same Latin root as this other one.” There’s a sense (probably illusary) of being right on the cusp of breaking through to a deeper general understanding of all these linked languages, and the link between them is their shared origin and the thousands of years of cultural intermingling since.

Here’s another book by Baldi I found whild cruising around Amazon. Anyone read his Foundations of Latin?

Hmm…reading through these Amazon review a little more thoroughly, Baldi’s An Introduction to the Indo-European Languages and Anthony’s The Horse, the Wheel, and Language are looking very interesting–I’ll pick those up to supplement the Deutscher.

However, Renfrew’s Archaeology and Language doesn’t exactly have glowing reviews–does anyone have an opinion on the comments that it’s inaccurate, written by a non-expert, biased towards British culture myths, etc.?

Ex-ap-no. Yeah, I know. I’ve often thought I’m glad I’m the only one who never has to deal with it!

The Wheel, the Horse, and Language, from its reviews, posits a similar pathway with the P-I-E origins north of the Black Sea but taking similar routes up the Danube after that. And some transmission across Anatolia is necessary because of the known records.

What was important about Renfrew’s book is that it directly refuted the theories of Marija Gimbutas, who was dominating the field at that time. Jared Diamond used her theories for Guns, Germs, and Steel. It’s almost certain today that she was wrong. As an archaeologist, Renfrew used the linguistics to back his side, but it is not primarily a book on linguistics. It is more readable than Mallory’s similar book, IMHO. But if *Wheel * covers the same ground with more up-to-date research, you should start there.

Holy shit. You know what, I’m just not going to spell your name anymore. I’ll just call you Fred. Thanks for the advice, Fred! :wink:

(It’s pretty f-ing stupid for a guy who’s claiming to be an aspiring linguist to misread your name twice.)

Excellent–and I see that Gould and Nature both gave WHL good reviews, so I guess I’ll pick up Renfrew’s book, too. (I’ve always been a bit of a completist, so now I’ll have a good six or eight books on linguistics, PIE, etc.)