Recovering ex-Catholics share your strategies

Great Debates
1

Another thread on this board started an interesting discussion, about whether you can in fact “resign” from the Catholic Church.

It seems to me that this departure should be viewed in two ways. From THEIR point of view they have Baptised you and thus made you a Catholic for ever(against your will and knowledge in most cases, since you were a baby, but since when is the freedom of the individual of much importance to them?) There is nothing you can do about this, because in their eyes you are the sinful sheep who has strayed and they are always right.

The other, more important form of liberation for the ex-Catholic is to get their brainwashing (often done in state-supported schools at public expense) out of your skull so you can live a normal life as a happy and well-adjusted human being.

This part is not easy, but it is not impossible. I walked out of the Catholic Church over 40 years ago after 13 years of Catholic education. This included an estimated 2000 hours of Catechism from grades 1-8, given first thing in the morning every school day. An incredible waste of prime learning time when the child’s brain is fresh and receptive.

Add to this an incredible estimated 2000 hours of going to Mass, Confession and Communion, including during the school day (another waste of good learning time). Add to this brainwashing the ABSENCE of other viewpoints and political opinions of which the Church did not approve, and the long-term effect is an inferior, slanted and one-sided Catholic brainwashing that passed for education and for which my parents actually paid big money during the high school years when Catholic Schools were not state-supported in my part of the world.

In high school and my first year of university, I even read St. Augustine in the original Latin and Thomas a Kempis’ Imitation of Christ.

My Catholic education also included physical and sexual abuse from the clergy, but that properly could be discussed in another thread.

I walked out of the Church around 18, and I began a life-long process as a “recovering Catholic”, when I realized there was no room for a gay person in the Church.

It has not been easy, but my friends, do not believe the lie that once they get your mind at a young age you are theirs for ever. I am plased to tell you that I recently tried the interesting Belief-0-Matic test to be found at this site: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

It is a test that examines your present beliefs and tells you which religion you are closest to. I am pleased and proud to report that out of a couple of dozen possible faiths, Roman Catholicism rates next to last! The only religion I would be less likely to join is Jehovah’s Witnesses.

If you are a Catholic looking to get out and to free your mind, or if you have succeeded in liberating yourself, this thread would be an interesting place to share experiences and tips.

Like Papillon, I am living proof that escape is possible. What is your story?

2

While I find the thread’s subject matter interesting, I feel compelled to ask “Where’s the debate?”.

3

It sounds like your beef is less with the Church itself and more with your parents for putting you through a Catholic education.

4

Freedom from an ideology, upbringing, former love infatuation, etc., is most often manifested not as a total antipathy, holding to the total opposite, hating, and so forth, because oftentimes that means you are still defined by that which you are rejecting — in other words, that which you now embrace isn’t chosen on its own merits but instead by the extent to which it opposes or inverts the stuff you have turned against.

5

Mmmmm… no. You aren’t an official member of the Catholic Church, with all the rights and priviledges attendant, until Confirmation. Baptism gets you out of going straight to hell, but if you were baptised and never stepped foot into another Catholic Church as long as you lived, you couldn’t technically be held as a Catholic. Confirmation is a choice, and although some may argue that a contract can’t be held binding when one party is 14 years of age, it’s a more conscious choice than baptism because the person in question- not their agent(s)- is affirming their belief in the doctrine and their desire to be made a member of the church.

I, for one, don’t understand the big deal some folks make out of leaving a group they were a member of (religious, social, political, whatever). When I was a kid I thought unicorns, Santa, and the Tooth Fairy existed- I didn’t go running through the streets the day I found out I was incorrect, shouting “Free your minds! It’s a conspiracy!” People change, beliefs change, morals and values and ethics change. I walked away from the Catholic church when I was 18 and never looked back- and that’s after having been one of the first female altar servers in the country, and the youngest lector in the Diocese. I never saw the need to pull others out of their delusions, never saw it as an escape or liberation. Just as another step in growing up.

YMMV, obviously.

6

Everyone get indoctrination. Going to public school in Ohio in the 50s and 60s, I learned many, many valuable things, among them:

  • Nuclear power is safe and cheap;
  • The domino theory is a viable way of looking at the world;
  • The war in Vietnam is a good thing;
  • World War I made the world safe for democracy;
  • The Shah of Iran has a democratic government;
  • Christianity wins converts by peaceful means, Islam wins them by violence;
  • American communists and socialists pose a threat to America;
  • Science will solve everything;
  • Fallout shelters will protect you from nuclear attack;
  • So will hiding under your desk.

I also had United Church of Christ indoctrination, which still had a bit of Calvinism in it, at least in our congregation.

Meanwhile, my wife had an Orthodox Jewish upbringing.

I don’t see what’s to recover from. You just realize a lot of stuff you were told as a kid was bunk, and move on.

7

Y’know, when I was a kid I was a Catholic. We went to church every week, went to Catholic sunday school, I was confirmed, etc. Then I realized I was an atheist, and stopped going to church, and never really worried much about it since. Getting over the Catholic church was about as easy as getting over the fact that my sister’s favorite TV show used to be “The Dukes of Hazzard”. No big whoop. I wasn’t traumatized, I wasn’t sodomized by a nun, I never had a priest slap my hand with a ruler.

Mmmm. Sodomy. Why do I always miss out on everything?

8

Given that this might be considered a form of witnessing and that however it goes it is liable to be thrown into GD by moderators of other Fora, Valteron appears to have picked the correct location to launch this thread. (Thus far there is no need to deem this a Pitting and I see no reason to expect that it will become one.)

9

Some folks have more trouble leaving their religion than others.

Recovering Catholics

I’ve seen similar support groups out there for former fundamentalists, mormons, scientologists, calvinists, and even for some orthodox jewish sects.

This is not meant as a dig at any of these groups (well, maybe the scientologists), just an observation.

10

Since the question regarding publicly funded parochial schools in Canada turned into a serious (if unintentional) hijack, garnering more posts than the OP, I have split it off to a new thread in GQ named Church and Secular schools in Canada.

[ /Moderating ]

11

As I see it, what does it matter if a church you leave( and do not believe in) tells you you have a mark on your soul.It doesn’t mean you have one,just they think you do. If a person is brain washed when they were little children, then started to think for themselves they shouldn’t worry about what happens to be said by others. We are not what other people think of us, we are what we are, not what they think we are, bad or good.

Monavis

12

I, for one, find the term recovering ex-Catholic not offensive but inane. What’s to recover from?

13

I meant to say:

“[…] not only offensive, but inane.”

14

Have to agree. For someone who is living proof that escape is possible from the mind-bending treachery of the RCC, Valteron certainly seems to have a pretty big axe to grind in this, and other, threads. Certainly doesn’t come across as someone now beyond the influence of the “evil” Church, IMO. “I no longer care a whit for their awful practices,” says he, grinding his teeth.

15

It’s not always a clean break, guys. Especially when it’s something that has influenced so much of your life, and is always going to be a big part of your family and probably the culture you are in. Some people can just walk away. But others have to work very hard to find new things to live for, new structures for their lives.

16

Yes, I understand, but that’s not what he’s describing. He has “escaped,” he has liberated himself. Except for the obvious animus and the compulsion to start or post in threads, attacking “Catholic apologists” and the Church. Again, just my opinion–the opinion of a deluded practicing Catholic, who lacks the discerning wisdon of the OP. :rolleyes:

17

That’s me, too. A few minor details are different*, but I had pretty much the same experience. For me, it was like realizing there isn’t a Santa Claus-- just something that you figure out as you get older.

*Having attended Catholic elemetary schools, I got my share of hand slaps from the nuns. Not with a ruler-- they liked to use a 1" diameter dowel. Ouch! That’ll teach you to do your homework.

18

Regarding this…
“Baptism gets you out of going straight to hell,…”

Where did this come from? What happened to Limbo, Purgatory and all that? I’m having “difficulties” with the idea that newborn infants, or anyone born before Jesus automatically gets an E ticket to hell.

19

When you mention Limbo, you bring up one of the most amazing things about religious belief. For example, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have predicted the end of the world about 10 times in the last 100 years. And when it fails to happen, they do not seem to lose any support!!!

The Catholic Church told me when I was a kid about Limbo, a place to which unbaptized babies went, because they could not enter Heaven without being baptised, but since they were innocent of all sin the could not go to Hell or Purgatory since their was nothing to purge! So they went to limbo. Sort of a nice place where they did not suffer, but were not as happy as if they went to Heaven.

But guess what? A Ctholic recently told me that the doctrine of Limbo has now been abandoned. Really? How is this possible? Was the Church lying? Or mistaken?

Might they be lying or mistaken about Purgatory? Or Heaven or Hell? But for some reason, Catholics just keep on going to Mass and giving them money. Go figure!

20

Well, the person(s) who originally told you that Limbo was a doctrine of the church were mistaken. It was a bit of theological speculation, based on too literal attempts to reconcile some passages of scripture with the concept of a just and merciful God. However, the church never adopted Limbo as an actual doctrine. It was never promulgated by a Council of the Church. Instead, various people within the church thought that the idea sounded good to them and began incorporating it into the stuff that was taught in schools.

This is not a claim that the church could not make an error, but a recognition of the fact that there are issues on which people within the church (be they great theologians or local catechists) can come to a belief even when the church has never made a formal declaration about it.

Sure, the church could be mistaken or lying. Or the church could be exactly correct. If you believe that the church is in error, it is probably better if you do not attend. As for the money: some of my money goes to maintain the buildings in which I worship or pay the (rather modest) salaries of the people who organize the education and preside over the worship. Some other monies are used to provide services such as education and health services and social services in my community. Since I tend to support those actions, it is only reasonable that I continue “giving them money.” I’ll survive.