I think you misunderstand why we recommend that mlai contact his representative in Congress. It is not to report criminal behavior; it’s because when the member’s office contacts a USMC colonel and informs him that Representative So-and-so would really like to help her constituent enlist in the Marine Corps (and then at election time, Congresswoman So-and-so will be able to trot out Lance Corporal Mlai to say nice things about her and how’s she’s strong on defense and supports military families, &c. &c.), that colonel is going to have no second thoughts about ordering some NCOIC joker to file an application for a waiver for mlai.
Not to speak for him, but I believe his point is if something not only doesn’t directly benefit you, it could actually negatively impact you, maybe it’s better not to do it. IOW, the time to try to get the Sgt in trouble (if that’s ever appropriate) is after mlai finds out if he’s in or he’s out. Respectfully, your assertion that if they’re on the fence regarding him then they might swing his way if he complains of mistreatment – that strikes me as a bit naive.
Of course, there is a difference between getting someone in trouble and having an influential person (or his/her office) intervene on your behalf to override an adverse decision. I’m surprised this distinction has occasioned so much incredulity.
Pretty much true. I wouldn’t push pissing hot when you get to basic though. I don’t think they’ll give you a slap on the wrist for that. Also now admitting to past casual use isn’t going to DQ you for positions like it would in the past. But really no one cares if you check the no block and you actually had a few joints in the past.
I was a linguist. The job I wanted required a TS with special background investigation for access to SCI. My recruiter told me they can’t access your records from when you were a minor, but they’ll check everything as an adult. Bottom line, I was an angel prior to age 18.
I lied about having smoked pot a couple times in college, as well as having done shrooms. The recruiter said it’d be easier that way. They will find people who know you, and they will lead them to more people who know you, and they’ll probably find a few people who know you that you didn’t know knew you. So if you were a little druggie, someone’s going to tell them.
Only a couple close friends knew me well and they weren’t the type to blab anything to some investigator who shows up wearing a suit.
After I was through basic and in advanced training I talked to other people and lots of people lied about pot. Like I said though, if you were a drug-head and lots of people knew, might as well be honest because they’re going to find out.
Definitely tell the truth about the mental health stuff. It’s on paper so they’ll find it, plus as a former linguist-with-a-big-'ol-clearance I can tell you I don’t care about past drug use but I wish a lot of people had been more honest about their mental health.
When I went through my security clearence the one thing I was told was a sure fire DQ was a lie. If you said you never did pot, and they find people who say you smoked it every day then you were out. If you said you did it then they could wavier it, and it wouldn’t matter. From what the other recruiting station said it seems to be the same way with your case. Don’t lie, and they will find a way if they want you.
Side note the one other automatic DQ I remember from MEPS was any firearm charges.
I wouldn’t lie to get any job. I still list the misdemeanor I got 14 years ago on applications if they ask. To me the question isn’t “could you get caught”, it’s “are you an honest person or not”.
Well they interview people you put down as references, not dig up people who may know you. So if someone puts down people who are going to say stupid shit about them that no one would ever have any way of knowing, then they are too stupid to have a clearance anyway.
The point is, the influential person is NOT going to be able to override this DQ - the Corps has valid reason to not try - Self-admitted use of a controlled substance. They can seek a wiver. They do not have to. And attempt to force a waiver actually would be illegal; constituting unwaranted abuse of power to interfere with legal admistrative structure of the Armed Forces. The law is on the side of the Corps. Raising a ruckus would NOT create a positive outcome, it could certainly produce a negative one, by hardening the Corps position. And it wouldn’t serve justice, either, as justice has already been done.
Nope. The way forward is to work with the Corps, not flail about like a gaffed fish.
I wasn’t talking about overriding an adverse decision, I was talking about rocking the boat further before a decision has been made. Thi is crystal-clear from my post that you quoted, and which your rejoinder is completely unresponsive to.
Though as to that: There is not necessarily or in every case a difference between getting someone in trouble and having an influential person (or his/her office) intervene on your behalf to override an adverse decision. Failure to recognize this potential lack of distinction is naive. As I already said.
I have give references for a few friends who were getting clearances, both military and civilian. My friends all told me not to lie. I was never asked a thing about drug use including a for a friend who smoked pot with me.
Well, which is it, toots? Because either you weren’t “talking about overriding an adverse decision [and] this [was] crystal clear” from your post or you were averring that sometimes, occasionally, there is no difference between overriding an adverse decision and getting someone in trouble.
As to the substance of your posts, the decision has already been made. It occurred when the NCOIC told him to get out, because he was DQ’ed for his drug use and mental health history. I don’t know what it is you think is going to happen now without some hustle on his part. A phone call from the recruiting station telling him, “Just joshin’! Come on down and we’ll get you in the Marine Corps.”? Personnel at the second recruiting station are not going to overrule their colleagues at the first one without some sort directive from above.
Baloney. There’s been no decision, because he hasn’t filed a waiver application.
He’s DQ’ed without a waiver, but the decision on that waiver isn’t going to be made by a Gunnery Sergeant at the recruiting station. It’s apparent that there are problems, both ethical and personal, between mlai and the staff at the first recruiting station. But it’s a different story at the second one, where he spoke to the CO about the waiver process and timing. If he’s going to apply for a waiver in the fall through that station, then I doubt the first recruiter is going to have any say in the decision.
in my experience (I’m exNavy, 81-85) recruiters ALWAYS encourage folks to lie.
I did not lie. I sat on the Group W bench… and I got my potsmokin’ waiver.
Tranquilis: I really wish I had met you. You may be the only exception I know.
I was in a very similiar situation. Basically, I got past the MEPS stage and was awaiting a ship date. That crap is not easy, I don’t think anyone has mentioned that. They get right in your face to ask you all those questions. You are asked about 10 times “Did your recruiter tell you to lie? They always do. Don’t. If you tell us the truth we can help you qualify.” Most stressful day of my life! Anyways, was 6 days from shipping out, my mother got mad at me for something stupid, and threatened the recruiter. He called me and basically said “It’s over. If you want to join, go to another state, and never talk to your family again”
The basicness of it is, if you have mental stuff going on, you’re not going into the Marines. Is this fair? As someone with a mental disorder I think it is. I understand now that there are certain things that I can’t do, that could harm others if I try.
It was January, I was homeless, cold and desperate, and they picked up on it. Scored extremly high on all the tests, qualified to be a linguist. So the prospect of being taken care of, plus a good job… I would’ve done anything to get it. I’m glad I didn’t though, all those years of wondering when my secret would’ve come out would have been torture.
NRichards: Well, part of the reason I went to the hospital was because it was wholly covered by my student insurance and because I had friends who recommended it as a place to relax for a few days and collect oneself. There were incidents that led up to it, but had school been in session or if my insurance policy didn’t cover the stay completely, I wouldn’t have gone. I was prescribed Depakote, which I took but never refilled. I don’t feel like it affected me in any way, especially not the drastic mood-flattening I’ve seen in severely bipolar people. I’m pretty sure the psychiatrist’s notes in my file would support me strongly. Then again, I don’t know how much my actions would be viewed as getting a free ride from the system (which they pretty much were).
The people at recruiting station #2 didn’t seem concerned with my stay there at all. What really needed to be cleared up it seemed was the LSD use. Anyways, they told me to check out some of the other branches just in case the waiver didn’t get through. The Navy seems pretty eager to have me on board. We’ll see what happens.
So I’m assuming that there is paperwork in a hospital somewhere that says you are Bi-Polar? I am as well, so understand what I am telling you is not assumed. No way would you get into the Marines. I understand there were circumstances behind your hopital stay, but they are not going to care, especially if you have had a diagnosis at ANY time in your life. All they knew about me when I got disqualified was that I carried a diagnosis of Bi-Polar, and at a point in my life had a drinking problem. Keep in mind it didn’t matter that I had no signs/symptoms of BPD and hadn’t taken meds for over a year. It didn’t even matter that I hadn’t taked a drink in over a year.
I think it’s safe to assume that the USMC, or any branch for that matter, would not take the risk of signing someone with a mental health history up, especially seeing as how some soldiers with PTSD are getting medical discharges.
Anyways, I say this as somone who has been to MEPS and I just can not imagine, remembering what that atmosphere was like, the questions they ask, that they would have been cool with me if I said I was Bi-Polar, and fooled around with drugs and alcohol. I mean even the navy won’t take you if you have EVER used an inhaler for asthma…
So just make sure you have a back-up plan that you will be happy with. I really wanted to serve my country, so in my spare time I do volunteer stuff with chemically addicted veterans. Is it the same as actively serving? No, but it does serve a need, and I am proud to help
Don’t call me “toots,” mkay? We’re not friends. And obviously it’s not “either,” it’s “both.” I wasn’t talking about overriding an adverse decision (my original point) AND sometimes there’s no difference between overriding an adverse decision and getting someone in trouble (responding to your point, as should have been obvious by the introduction “though as to that . . .”).
Wrong. The OP’er clarified that “I don’t know if I’m permanently blacklisted from the Marines, or if this is just a personal grudge from that particular station.” That’s why he went to another recruiting station. Therefore it is NOT at this point certain that he has been permanently DQ’d from the Corps for his drug use and mental health history. That’s your reading, but it ain’t necessarily the right one.
And you know what the personnel at the second station would do because why, exactly? For all we know, he was just told by the pissed-off recruiter that he was DQ’ed to get him to leave, and nothing further than that was done. You don’t know this situation, no matter how much you post as if you do. And of course some hustle is required; he’s doing that. He’s gone to another recruiter and is working the system from within the system, to try to figure out his current status and where to go from here. You may think he’d be better served by rocking the boat and calling his U.S. Congressman, but I think that’s BS and my opinion is every bit as valid as yours.
