Thanks everyone for the advice. Like I said, I’m not really sure how everything is organized, so I wasn’t quite sure how to proceed or who to bring my concerns to.
I just went to another station about ten miles away and spoke with a couple of guys there. Basically, I laid out everything in my past, relayed what I had been told by the previous recruiter, and asked how to proceed. Due to LSD use, they say I’ll need a CG waiver. Fortunately, the first guy of the two I happened to speak with was commanding officer, who (according to the second guy) is in a position to try and push the waiver up the chain, particularly if I try sometime in the fall. (Right now, he explained, is a bad time of year to get a CG waiver; positions are being filled by fresh high school graduates.)
On the plus side, I got a small job out of this ordeal. During the conversation I mentioned that I tutored part-time, among other things. Because of my test scores, I was offered a few additional hours a week helping potential recruits prepare for the ASVAB.
Yup. The numbers come down from on-high, get divvied up, and calculated out, and then everyone hits the streets, phones, and schools, scourering for bodies that meet the numbers. There’s heavy pressure, but if you don’t hit the numbers, and are honestly trying as hard as you can, there’s a limit to what they can do - they’ll pressure you, and harrass you, in the hopes that you can dig a little deeper. But once you’ve demonstrated that there’s no more gas in the tank, and you simply can’t make it, they send you back to where you came from to do te job you’re trained to do, and are good at. And that’s the hell of it - The threat of being put back in your home environment, through no fault of your own, works. People drive themselves into the ground to avoid ‘being sent home.’ I know - I saw it, I did it. I drove myself to the point of self-destruction trying to find ‘just one more contract.’ I’ve seen people drive themselves past the point of mental breakdown, into the bottle, and out of their mariages. All just to avoid failing.
I’ve also seen people of less character try to beat the system - cheat - when they start to fail. Those people get caught, with very near 100% surety. The system is smarter than they are, and they get caught sooner or later.
Perfect!
That is EXACTLY how the system is supposed to work. Well done - You’re going to be an excellent Marine, and a credit to your service.
Quota yes, but we don’t get paid for them - Hitting your numbers is payment enough. Being known as a skilled recruiter is heady stuff. Being known as a hot runner is as good as sex. Top recruiters walk tall amongst giants, and are accorded great respect - It’s a damned tough job, and we all know it. Being the best amongst the best is like fine whiskey, but without the hangover. Having been there, I know - It’s addictive, and it feeds on it’s own success. Beat the quota one month, you’re more likely to beat it two months in a row… Success generates confidence, which generates more success. Conversely, fail, and it creates desperation, which creates more failure. It’s hard to get out from behind the power curve. On the other hand, if you can dig yourself out of a hole, that also builds confidence, and armors you against future fear of failure, which means you’re more likely to go the distance.
I’ve never been in the military, but I have applied for jobs that require a Federal security clearance and I have worked for the Feds recently.
Do. Not. Lie.
Not ever. It’s not worth it. Look, it’s understood that not everyone is perfect. In fact, most of us aren’t. That’s why questions are asked, and at times an explanation is requested. Sometimes, you aren’t what they’re looking for. Sometimes, they’ll note that you screwed up in the past but you aren’t like that anymore (people do change over time, particularly between early and late adulthood). However, one of the important things in a job is trust - and a person who admits to his/her faults is a LOT more trustworthy than someone who lies even a little. You 'fess up to your “sins” when asked to you’re far more likely to get your foot in the door. You lie and get caught and the Feds WILL hurt you.
Just wanted to mention that this happened to a friend of mine. He had spent time in a mental institution. The recruiter encouraged him to lie about it. Then he had a minor breakdown during basic training (stress-related mostly). They set him up with whatever kind of discharge they do for mental health reasons (don’t remember what the term was, but it meant he would get to keep the money/bonus/whatever he’d been paid already). Apparently he mentioned his institution stay to the military shrink, and someone noticed the discrepency. They switched his discharge to fraudulent enlistment, and he had to pay everything back.
I’m not a recruiter, I’m not in the military and I do not have a security clearance.
I assume you are looking for a lifetime career with the Marines, or at least a significant portion of your life. You do NOT want to live every single day wondering when the truth would come out. Even if you lived every day with a clean nose and a perfect record, shit happens. Would the risks involved in lying even run close to the risk of never having a days peace?
If you lie to get in, you are a fraud. When you stand next to the others, heck, they may be frauds also. However, I will point out that the Marines specifically hold themselves to a higher standard. You want to be a Marine? Then act like one. Don’t act like the guy you heard about. Act like the best Marine.
I guess the complaint about my recruiter got back to him. I was scheduled to meet with him today at 9:00, and since I didn’t receive a phone call telling me otherwise, I showed up. He wasn’t in, and I didn’t see any evidence of him being there (no laptop bag, etc). His desk is next to another recruiter’s (I think that’s what she is, anyways), and she greeted me with a smile and told me to have a seat. After about 15 minutes, the commanding recruiter (I think that’s who he is) walks into the room and the following conversation takes place:
Why are you here?
I’m here to meet with GySgt XXXX.
Why?
Um, he’s my recruiter. He told me to meet him here at 9.
He’s not your recruiter.
Oh…
You’re disqualified, bro. Get out.
All of this was said with a I-don’t-want-to-fucking-see-you tone of voice. The woman at the adjacent desk looked up at me from her phone with a surprised expression and mouthed something to me, but I couldn’t figure out what she said. I turned around and left without saying anything. I wanted to ask if this was due to GySgt XXXX asking me to lie, but I figured that wouldn’t have gotten me anywhere. In retrospect, I should have asked if I could have gotten my transcripts back. It’s going to be a pain to get another copy.
I don’t know if I’m permanently blacklisted from the Marines, or if this is just a personal grudge from that particular station. But hey, I got a job and a few free McDonald’s sandwiches out of the ordeal, so not all is lost.
Return to the other recruiting station, and tell them all about it. Sounds to me like a personal grudge, and if so, you’re free to move ahead elsewhere.
If it isn’t a grudge, well, you’re still owed a bit more than “beat it.” Some minor explanation is in order.
Anyway, whatever comes of this, your head is still high, and you’re not looking over your shoulder. All told, you’ve had worse days, I’m certain.
Sheesh, what a dick. It’s not surprising that someone who worked for such a toxic asshole encouraged you to engage in dishonest behavior. And you’ve shown that you’d make a vastly better Marine than either of them by refusing to succumb to it.
I’d definitely return to the other recruiting station; they seemed to think you were perhaps eligible for a waiver. This is the method for getting past prior indiscretions, not untruths.
Also, call your Congressperson/Senators and see if their offices (most provide “constituent services”) can help you with enlisting. Perhaps mention your experiences with this recruiting office too.
Well, calling a Senator or Representative isn’t going to be particularly useful to mlai - The system worked, and no actual un-punished improper behavior took place, no fraud was committed, and no attempted fraud was left un-punished. There’s not much for them to investigate. They can’t force the Corps to take any one specific person, so all they can do is flail about a bit, and create more bad feelings.
I’d agree that the NCOIC is a toxic asshole, but sometimes, you don’t have much comeback, no matter what kind of asshole a person is.
If it were criminal behavior I suspected, I would have said U.S. Attorney. A member of Congress has more clout than any NCO running a recruiting station, and military brass usually like to stay on Congress’s good side. The legislator gets a relatively easy way to create goodwill. And it’s no skin off their (the USMC higher-ups’) asses to tell the recruiter to file a waiver application in order to stay on the good side of the people who vote on defense appropriation bills.
I believe that by “[punishable] improper behavior,” she was referring to the lying that the recruiter suggested, which didn’t occur. The recruiter’s misdeeds would be covered in “no attempted fraud was left un-punished,” presumably because he was apparently reassigned as punishment.
I actually don’t know what happened to GySgt XXXX. I went by the other recruiting station (the helpful one), and it was completely deserted with the glass doors locked. The other branches seemed to be open; I wonder if everyone involved is being questioned or getting an ass-chewing. I’ll drop in tomorrow and find out, I guess.
When I went to the recruiter a couple years ago, I was honest. I told them I smoked Pot a few times before, signed a waiver and even went through an interview to get a Secret Clearence. I never got busted and since the last time was 6 months before I even saw the recruiter, it’s not like they could prove it anyway.
People asked me why I volunteered that information and I just tell them it’s a lot easier for that to be out in the open so I don’t have to worry about “accidentally” letting it slip and the wrong person trying to use it against me. I’ve mentioned it in conversation at work multiple times and nobody cares. If they did, all I have to do is say “It’s in my service record”(which I’ve never had to do).
But I digress…
I agree with the general opinion. Don’t Lie. Particularly if it’s something there’s documentation on(Like a stay in the psych ward). Admit it and let them decide from there. It also saves you from having to hide it from everyone you work with.
Lying about past pot usage is so common they don’t bother to do anything about it unless you actually test positive after you’re in. Even if you test positive right away when you get to Basic, they just bitch at you and tell you not to do it again. Anyone who tests positive for cocaine or other hard drugs gets fraudulent enlistments, though. At least that’s how it was 25 years ago. Maybe things have changed now.
I think if they kicked out everyone who lied about smoking weed, there would be like 4 people left in the Armed Forces.
Attourney Generals don’t get involved. Elected officials only get involved when a wrong has been plausibly committed - they do indeed like to stick their oars in, but only when there’s something they might actually accomplish. No wrong was actually perpetrated. A recruiter acted unethically, and corrective action appears to have been taken. No actual crime, no place for the elected official to insert themselves into the system, And no, the service will NOT act on a request to enlist someone they’ve officially decided is unqualified, nor will elected official so request.
Remember, I’ve been On The Bag… I’ve seen investigations and allegations come and go.
Though I still disagree about not contacting officials of all sorts. If nothing else, its another documentation of that recruiter doing something he definitely should not do. Even if it does the OP zero good, its still the right thing to do, and might save someone elses ass in the future.
As for the OP’s enlistment, if he complains (in a proper fasion) about this to the right people, he will probably at the very least get lined up with someone who WILL treat him right, which is worth something right there. Then, if his history was borderline in terms of disqualifying, particularly if he has other attributes they REALLY want, they might swing in his favor rather than the other way because of his mistreatment.
Hardly worth the trouble. Real crimes of this sort get reported plenty often enough - It’s not like there’s a lack of evidence, or any kind of coverup ongoing. Reports of near misses of this nature only adds to the noise, without adding useful new data. I mean, what’re they going to investigate? That some recruiters skate too close to the edge? That some go over? Old news. Are they going to report that the system worked, and the problem was stomped upon? Boring non-news.
Yeah, sure, it can be reported. Will doing so do anything useful? Nope. Time to spend the energy on seeing if mlai is actually, honestly, DQ’d. And if not, then spending energy on getting a proper waiver.