Refinements to Top TV Show Polling

Cafe Society
1

Starting with Your Favorite All-Time TV Shows and following up with The Best All-Time TV Show [vote for up to 10] over 60 unique Dopers have contributed ideas and lists of shows to be considered in a “Top TV Shows Of All Time” poll.

Along the way various suggestions for refinements to the list(s) and the way they are presented have come up, starting with AuntiePam and followed up by silenusand others.

After a day to think about it, I decided to start this thread so more ideas can be shared and discussed.

If the genre approach makes good sense to you, please post (in this thread) a minimum of 5 shows each in whatever genres you feel are relevant. Use your own criteria, whether Best or Favorite or some other method of judging shows.

If another approach makes better sense to you, describe it and give examples.

At this moment over 120 voters have voted in the latest effort at a comprehensive poll. Where we go from there is up to the Dopers who want to express an opinion about the issues.

2

Maybe there should be a separate thread for each genre?

And maybe the number of genres could be limited:

[ul]
[li]Drama[/li][li]Comedy[/li][li]Reality[/li][/ul]

This leaves out documentaries, science, talk shows, etc., but it’s the dramas, sitcoms, and reality shows that have regular separate threads here, so that’s probably what most of us are watching. Cooking and fashion shows would fall under Reality.

3

Just so we can discuss some specifics, here’s a sorted view of the “Top 20” voting after 130 votes. Included are the 113 and 120 results, and the sort is on the 130 column:



                                Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130
The Simpsons                     38 33.63%   42 35.00%   45 34.62% 
All In The Family                25 22.12%   26 21.67%   29 22.31% 
Seinfeld                         22 19.47%   24 20.00%   29 22.31% 
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart  24 21.24%   26 21.67%   28 21.54% 
The Wire                         27 23.89%   27 22.50%   27 20.77% 

The Twilight Zone                24 21.24%   26 21.67%   27 20.77% 
Firefly                          24 21.24%   25 20.83%   27 20.77% 
M*A*S*H                          24 21.24%   25 20.83%   27 20.77% 
Cheers                           23 20.35%   25 20.83%   26 20.00% 
The Sopranos                     22 19.47%   24 20.00%   26 20.00% 

Monty Python's Flying Circus     20 17.70%   22 18.33%   25 19.23% 
Buffy                            21 18.58%   22 18.33%   24 18.46%  
The West Wing                    16 14.16%   18 15.00%   20 15.38% 
Dick Van Dyke Show               16 14.16%   17 14.17%   20 15.38% 
Fawlty Towers                    11 9.73%    13 10.83%   19 14.62% 

NOVA                             17 15.04%   18 15.00%   18 13.85%
Northern Exposure                15 13.27%   17 14.17%   18 13.85% 
Arrested Development             15 13.27%   16 13.33%   18 13.85% 
Six Feet Under                   13 11.50%   16 13.33%   17 13.08% 
WKRP In Cincinnati               14 12.39%   14 11.67%   17 13.08%

Unless a new process of collecting likely candidates is greatly different in its results, I’d say the Comedy category is well represented in this Top 20 grouping.

The Wire is the highest (so far) ranking Drama and it’s #4 on the current list. I’m not familiar with some of these shows but the Drama genre is poorly represented here with for sure 5 and maybe a few more out of 20.

NOVA is the only non-Drama and non-Comedy I see, and even in the entire Top 51 there are only a few shows that fit that category.

Based on the runaway nature of The Simpsons I wouldn’t predict much more than a shuffling about of the Top Ten or so. A case could be made for a run-off of the Top 12 if genres are ignored. Otherwise the Drama section would need to pull in some shows from lower down.

These observations are likely to change the more votes we get, and there have been some startling changes in ranking as snapshots are made. The only thing “clear” to me at this point is that unless there’s some major dropoff, The Simpsons is a clear #1 and anything else would be to determine #2 and others.

Just my view at this stage.

4

Personally, I’d ask people rank stuff by factors:

Depth
Humor
Production Quality
Acting
Writing
Fun

The one with the highest product of values or the highest 6D n-agonal would be the “Best”. “Favorite” can, of course, simply be calculated from viewership. It’s not a very meaningful statistic.

5

Would you provide the list of shows or ask them to?

6

Here are the snapshots for 113, 129, 130, 139 and 140 votes, for all 51 items in the poll. Sorted on 140.



                                Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130 Voters: 139 Voters: 140 
The Simpsons                     38 33.63%   42 35.00%   45 34.62%   51 36.69%   52 37.14% 
The Twilight Zone                24 21.24%   26 21.67%   27 20.77%   31 22.30%   32 22.86% 
M*A*S*H                          24 21.24%   25 20.83%   27 20.77%   31 22.30%   32 22.86% 
Seinfeld                         22 19.47%   24 20.00%   29 22.31%   31 22.30%   31 22.14% 
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart  24 21.24%   26 21.67%   28 21.54%   30 21.58%   30 21.43% 

The Wire                         27 23.89%   27 22.50%   27 20.77%   30 21.58%   30 21.43% 
All In The Family                25 22.12%   26 21.67%   29 22.31%   29 20.86%   29 20.71% 
Firefly                          24 21.24%   25 20.83%   27 20.77%   29 20.86%   29 20.71% 
The Sopranos                     22 19.47%   24 20.00%   26 20.00%   28 20.14%   28 20.00% 
Monty Python's Flying Circus     20 17.70%   22 18.33%   25 19.23%   28 20.14%   28 20.00%

Cheers                           23 20.35%   25 20.83%   26 20.00%   27 19.42%   27 19.29% 
Buffy                            21 18.58%   22 18.33%   24 18.46%   25 17.99%   25 17.86% 
Dick Van Dyke Show               16 14.16%   17 14.17%   20 15.38%   22 15.83%   22 15.71% 
The West Wing                    16 14.16%   18 15.00%   20 15.38%   21 15.11%   22 15.71% 
NOVA                             17 15.04%   18 15.00%   18 13.85%   20 14.39%   21 15.00% 

Fawlty Towers                    11 9.73%    13 10.83%   19 14.62%   20 14.39%   20 14.29% 
Arrested Development             15 13.27%   16 13.33%   18 13.85%   19 13.67%   19 13.57% 
WKRP In Cincinnati               14 12.39%   14 11.67%   17 13.08%   19 13.67%   19 13.57% 
Futurama                         13 11.50%   15 12.50%   16 12.31%   19 13.67%   19 13.57% 
Northern Exposure                15 13.27%   17 14.17%   18 13.85%   18 12.95%   18 12.86% 

The Bob Newhart Show             12 10.62%   13 10.83%   16 12.31%   18 12.95%   18 12.86% 
Doctor Who                       13 11.50%   13 10.83%   15 11.54%   18 12.95%   18 12.86% 
Star Trek: TOS                   13 11.50%   14 11.67%   15 11.54%   17 12.23%   18 12.86%
Six Feet Under                   13 11.50%   16 13.33%   17 13.08%   17 12.23%   17 12.14% 
Star Trek: TNG                   14 12.39%   15 12.50%   16 12.31%   17 12.23%   17 12.14% 

Barney Miller                    13 11.50%   14 11.67%   15 11.54%   17 12.23%   17 12.14%  
Battlestar Galactica             14 12.39%   14 11.67%   14 10.77%   15 10.79%   16 11.43% 
Lost                             12 10.62%   12 10.00%   12 9.23%    14 10.07%   15 10.71% 
Whose Line Is It Anyway?         11 9.73%    13 10.83%   13 10.00%   13 9.35%    13 9.29% 
Good Eats                        12 10.62%   12 10.00%   13 10.00%   13 9.35%    13 9.29% 

Deadwood                          9 7.96%    10 8.33%    10 7.69%    12 8.63%    12 8.57% 
Band of Brothers                 11 9.73%    11 9.17%    11 8.46%    11 7.91%    12 8.57% 
News Radio                       11 9.73%    11 9.17%    11 8.46%    11 7.91%    11 7.86%
Freaks & Geeks                    8 7.08%     9 7.50%    10 7.69%    10 7.19%    10 7.14% 
The Office (Original -- UK)       6 5.31%     8 6.67%    10 7.69%    10 7.19%    10 7.14% 

House                             9 7.96%     9 7.50%     9 6.92%    10 7.19%    10 7.14% 
Angel                             8 7.08%     9 7.50%     9 6.92%    10 7.19%    10 7.14% 
Rome                              6 5.31%     7 5.83%     8 6.15%    10 7.19%    10 7.14% 
Twin Peaks                        8 7.08%     8 6.67%     9 6.92%     9 6.47%     9 6.43% 
The Shield                        8 7.08%     8 6.67%     8 6.15%     8 5.76%     8 5.71% 

The Golden Girls                  8 7.08%     8 6.67%     8 6.15%     8 5.76%     8 5.71% 
Breaking Bad                      7 6.19%     8 6.67%     8 6.15%     8 5.76%     8 5.71% 
NCIS                              6 5.31%     6 5.00%     6 4.62%     7 5.04%     7 5.00%
Family Guy                        5 4.42%     6 5.00%     6 4.62%     7 5.04%     7 5.00% 
ER                                5 4.42%     5 4.17%     5 3.85%     6 4.32%     7 5.00% 

Mad Men                           2 1.77%     5 4.17%     5 3.85%     5 3.60%     5 3.57% 
I Claudius                        4 3.54%     4 3.33%     5 3.85%     5 3.60%     5 3.57% 
The Avengers                      3 2.65%     3 2.50%     3 2.31%     3 2.16%     3 2.14% 
Gilligan's Island                 3 2.65%     3 2.50%     3 2.31%     3 2.16%     3 2.14% 
Carnivale                         3 2.65%     3 2.50%     3 2.31%     3 2.16%     3 2.14% 

My Name Is Earl                   2 1.77%     3 2.50%     3 2.31%     3 2.16%     3 2.14% 

Multiple Choice Poll.          Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130 Voters: 139 Voters: 140
7

First, you’d probably have everyone rank each show they’ve seen on say a scale of 0 to 9 for each of the 6 factors. Then you could either cull shows with too little data, or apply some sort of function that lessened the result of shows with very little data. As an example of the latter case, if you had two shows, A and B, and A had 3 response:

Factor 1: 5
Factor 2: 3
Factor 3: 7

And B had three responses:

Factor 1: 4
Factor 2: 6
Factor 3: 5

Factor 1: 6
Factor 2: 2
Factor 3: 7

Factor 1: 8
Factor 2: 4
Factor 3: 1

Then you have a function f(n) = -1/(n + 0.5) + 1 where n is the number of reviewers, and where as n grows, the function approaches but never equals 1.

f(1) = 0.33
f(3) = 0.71

Show A’s factors, after multiplying by the result of the function (where n = 1) would be:

Factor 1: 1.65
Factor 2: 1.32
Factor 3: 0.33

Show B’s factors, after multiplying by the result of the function (where n = 3) would be:

Factor 1: 2.84
Factor 2: 4.26
Factor 3: 3.55

Factor 1: 4.26
Factor 2: 1.42
Factor 3: 4.97

Factor 1: 5.68
Factor 2: 2.84
Factor 3: 0.71

Now we average together the results of B:

Factor 1: 4.26
Factor 2: 2.84
Factor 3: 3.08

Now for determination of Best we can either add the factors:

A total: 3.3
B total: 10.18

Or take the distance from (0, 0, 0) in a 3D cube:

A distance: 2.14
B distance: 5.97

The second method gives a slight lead to shows that excel at particular factors, rather than being mediocre at everything.

(I had a job where this sort of math was important, in case you haven’t noticed)

8

Here’s an update on the poll’s progress:



                              Voters: 113  Voters: 146  Voters: 164 
The Simpsons                     38 33.63%    55 37.67%    63 38.41% 
Seinfeld                         22 19.47%    32 21.92%    41 25.00% 
M*A*S*H                          24 21.24%    33 22.60%    40 24.39% 
The Wire                         27 23.89%    32 21.92%    38 23.17% 
The Twilight Zone                24 21.24%    33 22.60%    36 21.95%

The Sopranos                     22 19.47%    30 20.55%    36 21.95% 
Firefly                          24 21.24%    31 21.23%    35 21.34% 
Monty Python's Flying Circus     20 17.70%    30 20.55%    35 21.34% 
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart  24 21.24%    31 21.23%    34 20.73% 
Cheers                           23 20.35%    28 19.18%    33 20.12% 

All In The Family                25 22.12%    30 20.55%    30 18.29% 
Buffy                            21 18.58%    25 17.12%    28 17.07% 
Arrested Development             15 13.27%    21 14.38%    28 17.07% 
The West Wing                    16 14.16%    23 15.75%    27 16.46% 
NOVA                             17 15.04%    23 15.75%    26 15.85% 

Fawlty Towers                    11 9.73%     22 15.07%    25 15.24% 
Six Feet Under                   13 11.50%    20 13.70%    23 14.02% 
Star Trek: TNG                   14 12.39%    19 13.01%    23 14.02% 
Star Trek: TOS                   13 11.50%    19 13.01%    23 14.02% 
Dick Van Dyke Show               16 14.16%    22 15.07%    22 13.41% 

Futurama                         13 11.50%    19 13.01%    22 13.41% 
Northern Exposure                15 13.27%    19 13.01%    21 12.80% 
WKRP In Cincinnati               14 12.39%    19 13.01%    20 12.20% 
Doctor Who                       13 11.50%    18 12.33%    20 12.20% 
The Bob Newhart Show             12 10.62%    18 12.33%    19 11.59% 

Battlestar Galactica             14 12.39%    17 11.64%    19 11.59% 
Barney Miller                    13 11.50%    17 11.64%    19 11.59% 
Lost                             12 10.62%    17 11.64%    19 11.59% 
Deadwood                          9 7.96%     13 8.90%     16 9.76%
Band of Brothers                 11 9.73%     12 8.22%     16 9.76% 

Freaks & Geeks                    8 7.08%     11 7.53%     15 9.15% 
Whose Line Is It Anyway?         11 9.73%     14 9.59%     14 8.54% 
House                             9 7.96%     14 9.59%     14 8.54%
Good Eats                        12 10.62%    13 8.90%     13 7.93%
News Radio                       11 9.73%     11 7.53%     13 7.93% 

Rome                              6 5.31%     11 7.53%     12 7.32% 
The Office (Original -- UK)       6 5.31%     11 7.53%     12 7.32% 
Twin Peaks                        8 7.08%     10 6.85%     12 7.32% 
Breaking Bad                      7 6.19%      9 6.16%     12 7.32% 
Family Guy                        5 4.42%      9 6.16%     11 6.71% 

Angel                             8 7.08%     10 6.85%     10 6.10% 
The Shield                        8 7.08%      9 6.16%     10 6.10% 
The Golden Girls                  8 7.08%      9 6.16%      9 5.49% 
ER                                5 4.42%      8 5.48%      9 5.49%
NCIS                              6 5.31%      7 4.79%      7 4.27%

Mad Men                           2 1.77%      6 4.11%      7 4.27% 
The Avengers                      3 2.65%      3 2.05%      6 3.66% 
I Claudius                        4 3.54%      5 3.42%      5 3.05% 
My Name Is Earl                   2 1.77%      3 2.05%      5 3.05% 
Carnivale                         3 2.65%      4 2.74%      4 2.44% 

Gilligan's Island                 3 2.65%      3 2.05%      3 1.83% 

Multiple Choice Poll.        Voters: 113  Voters: 146   Voters: 164