This is cross posted as part pf my Pit thread, because I really want a legitimate answer. I wasn’t sure I’d get one in the Pit. Edited to take out Pit-speech.
In a thread a while back I mentioned my brother who I wanted to send to Mom. I go to Greyhound and buy him one of those $99.00 Any Time tickets form Oakland to Asheville. To make a long story short, he’s not going. I’d already changed the original schedule once and was told “Don’t worry, when he’s ready to go, he’ll need to pay a $10.00 rescheduling fee. That’s it? That’s it. Fine, I think, that’s not bad. I should have known. Like I said he’s not going. Last weekend I call Greyhound. The following is more or less the transcript:
Hi, I have this ticket that I’m not going to be using…
Is it an Any Time ticket?
Yes, anyway like I was saying…
*Those tickets are non-refundable, and if they’re not used in 30 days, they’re no good. *
Wait a minute, this other rep told me, wherein I then reiterated the other phone call.
Well, I don’t know about that, but those tickets are non-refundable, and if they’re not used in 30 days, they’re no good. It says so in the printing on the back.
You mean to tell me I’ve made a donation to your company.
Sorry.
Somebody please tell me that this can’t possibly be %$&@ing Legal!!!
If that’s what it says on the back of the ticket you may be out of luck. But if you go down to the place where you bought the ticket, ask for a manager and say "but they (point finger in direction of rep) told me…) you may be able to work something out. But probably not. I could guess that the rep was implying that it could be rescheduled for another time within the 30 day window. But I really don’t know how this anytime ticket works, I’m just guessing.
It assaults my since of fair play, kind of like if I sell someone something, and they don’t pick it up I get to sell it again. Just doesn’t seem right, it’s not like it’ll break me or something.
Every prepaid ticket they have outstanding is a debt they owe. Imagine, if their tickets didn’t expire, how much debt they would have for unused tickets over the years.
I believe Stuffy’s objection, Jim, is not the unrefundability of the ticket as much as the fact that before he purchased the ticket he was told by a representative of the company that the ticket was refundable.
Whether Greyhound has a legal right to refuse a refund after they’ve promised you one is actually a modestly complex legal question which depends on state law and the exact terms of your conversation with the original ticket agent. It seems from the OP that you didn’t get an affirmative statement of refundability at the beginning, which isn’t going to help you much. Not knowing enough about the facts, I’m certainly not going to try to tackle the legal analysis. However, I suggest you find a national customer service address or a regional headquarters and write them a letter, politely explaining the situation, that you asked specifically whether the refund would be available (if that’s true), and that you were told unequivocally that it would be (if you were) – include the name of the original agent if possible. There is a good chance you will receive some consideration.
What it boils down to is an allegation without proof that an unknown representative of the company allegedly made an oral contract, without witnesses or recording, that is contrary to all printed instructions and literature, including what was on the back of the ticket itself. And without anything in writing, I would imagine this could almost come under the heading of “frivilous lawsuit”, as by definition proof cannot be established for the complaintant.
If the matter went to court, the outcome would depend in part on whether the judge finds Stuffy to be a credible witness. If the judge believes Stuffy’s version of what the ticket seller told him, that could be sufficient proof.
[Usual disclaimer that this isn’t meant to be legal advice, but simply to comment on a discussion of a matter of public interest.]
The rep said that the ticket could be rescheduled for a $10 fee, and the dispute seems to be about rescheduling it past 30 days. But no one said he could get his money back.
Keeve’s reading is correct. However this just in, I’ve read the back of the the ticket. There’s no mention whatsoever about the ticket not being refundable. In fact it doen’t mention refunds at all. So now what? BTW, neither of the cites linked above, seem to have any bearing on this, so it looks to me now like I was lied to over the phone to keep me from requesting a refund. Anybody read this differently?
How is that “proof”, BTW? That’s the judge finding that what He[sub]1[/sub] said was more believeable than what He[sub]2[/sub] said. If the judge believes that He[sub]1[/sub] is the Man from Atlantis that doesn’t mean that it’s proof that he is, only that the judge found that he is. Under what circumstances is a single unwitnessed account of an alleged oral contract considered to be proof, regardless of the assumed veracity of the witness?
Airlines do this all the time with their bargain-priced tickets–no refunds, and if changes are allowed at all, there’s a fee for that.
Reading through the posts, I find myself wondering if the “Don’t worry, when he’s ready to go, he’ll need to pay a $10.00 rescheduling fee." comment was made before or after the actual purchase of the ticket. Regardless, if the person who said that didn’t mention the 30-day limit, that’s not the same as his saying the ticket was good forever. He may have assumed that you knew about the 30-day limit, but didn’t know about the rescheduling option.
Looking carefully at what we’re told the company said, I don’t see any contradiction. I do see an absence of the complete regulations being spelled out in a single conversation, but that’s not really the company’s responsibility. As long as these regulations are available to consumer inquiry, it’s the customer’s responsibility to know what he’s buying. I would expect there’s some written material available at the ticket window that covers this.
I would guess that there’s some sort of date on the ticket, and presumably an indication of when it expires.
If refunds aren’t mentioned, I would take that to mean that they aren’t available. There’s no legal requirement for companies to issue refunds just because the customer changes his mind.
The easiest solution may be to approach people in the ticket line and sell someone that ticket. Discount it to 90 if that helps to sell it.
We’re not talking about scientific research here, where “More research is required” is a valid conclusion. In a court of law, one guy wins and one guy loses; the question is not “Has one side eliminated all possibility of doubt?” but rather “Which side is more convincing?” In the legal context, “proof” of something is simply enough evidence to make the judge or jury think your version of accounts is closer to the truth than the other dude’s.
