Regional use of the term "nor'easter"

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=Polycarp]
It’s much more a coastal term than a regional one, …
[/QUOTE]
The remainder of your post notwithstanding, most posts seem to support this part. And it supports my experience as well: I have indeed lived in NJ for almost all of the last 50 years, but the first half was in Bergen County, and since the early 80’s I’ve been much closer to the shore. It has taken me a very long time to get used to the different climate. For the first few years, I didn’t understand why we got so little snow, and then one day I drove up the Parkway, and was amazed at how there was noticably more and more of the stuff as I continued on northward. :cool: As a child, Route 4 was the state’s main artery, and anything below Lodi was South Jersey. :smack: Amazing what I’ve learned in only half a century. :eek:

So, in conclusion, I think the main reason the term is new to me, is because I had been so far (both geographically and culturally) from the shore when I was young. Thanks, all, for writing!

22

More likely than not, up until sometime in the '90s, you wouldn’t have heard the term much even in the coastal parts of New Jersey. As the Wikipedia article discusses, the term is only recently common outside of the New England area.

23

Never heard anybody use this word in casual conversation. The only person I’ve ever heard say this is the meteorologist on the news. Everybody else just calls it a thunderstorm.

Kinda like Alberta Clipper. That’s what they call it on the news. Regular people just say “snowstorm”.

24

[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]
Never heard anybody use this word in casual conversation. The only person I’ve ever heard say this is the meteorologist on the news. Everybody else just calls it a thunderstorm.

Kinda like Alberta Clipper. That’s what they call it on the news. Regular people just say “snowstorm”.
[/QUOTE]

A “nor’easter” is nothing like a thunderstorm. :rolleyes:

I’ll also point out that the current storm bedeviling the East Coast is not a nor’easter. The low’s center is not sufficiently far off the coast to cause the weather to wrap around and slam into the coast from the northeast; instead moisture is still being funneled up from the south/southeast at a very strong rate. People in the southern tier of New York and in NE Pennsylvania are getting NE winds, but they don’t count for nor’easters. :wink:

25

I grew up in the Hudson Valley of NYS but never heard the term till I moved up here to New England. I didn’t realize it was an exact pattern; I thought it just meant a wicked bad snowstorm or violent rainstorm.

26

[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
A “nor’easter” is nothing like a thunderstorm. :rolleyes:

[/QUOTE]

Nothing like? Meaning no resemblance at all?

Fine, edgmucate me. What does a noreaster have that a “wicked bad snowstorm or violent rainstorm” doesn’t have? And I mean from the point of view of the average Joe standing on the ground looking up at the storm, not the meteorologist looking down from the satellites.

If one ever passes by I’ll want to be able to recognize it.

27

zz

28

Well, you can start with the fact that thunderstorms are relatively isolated events, caused when a cumulonimbus cloud passes over head. While there are times (especially out on the Great Plains) that they can get to be miles across, they certainly don’t approach the concept of a well-developed low-pressure system.

For example, the one that is currently attacking New England measures from the westernmost extremity of Pennsylvania to the middle of New Brunswick! That’s roughly 750 miles across. Needless to say, such a storm doesn’t pass overhead anytime soon. By comparison, even a really bad Plains thunderstorm is over and gone within the hour. Out in Virginia, a thunderstorm is lucky if it lasts 30 min.

Then, there is the fact that there won’t be much if any lightning in a nor’easter. In a strong low-pressure system, the sort of atmospheric instability that spawns thunderstorms within the system occurs to the south or south-east of the center of the low (we are excluding hurricanes from this discussion). A nor’easter hits the coast with the north to northwest portion of the system, in which it is very unusual for a thunderstorm to reside.

Instead, what you get is wind. Driving wind. Non-stop driving wind. Wind that piles the waves up high and crashes them down all along the coast. Wind that makes the rain come down sideways. Wind that simply doesn’t end any time soon.

And, of course, there is the cold. On the back-side of the low, you are getting colder air pulled down from the north of the storm. The surge of warmer, moisture laden air has missed you off to the East (spending its fury “harmlessly” out to sea). Instead, you get cold, nasty weather. This, too, is quite unlike a thunderstorm, which is almost always occasioned by warm air (allthough there may be cool downdrafts out of the storm, cool is relative, and it certainly isn’t the roughly 40 degrees being reported along the New England coast as I type. :wink: ).

Hopefully, this will help you tell the difference. :slight_smile:

29

[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]
Never heard anybody use this word in casual conversation. The only person I’ve ever heard say this is the meteorologist on the news. Everybody else just calls it a thunderstorm.

Kinda like Alberta Clipper. That’s what they call it on the news. Regular people just say “snowstorm”.
[/QUOTE]

Nor’Easter and Alberta Clipper refer to very specific types of storms, and if you’re in an area affected by them, you know exactly what they mean. Since Nor’Easter has already been handled, I’lll take Alberta Clipper.

In the central provinces of Canada and the upper Midwest of the U.S., when an Alberta Clipper is forecast, you can expect the worst kind of winter weather (IMO) - no more than a couple of inches of snow, but whipped around by high winds combined with a severe drop in temperatures. This is the kind of cold and snow that gets into your sleeves and through even the thickest scarf. You can have whiteout conditions on the roads. Contrast this to the other kind of snowstorm, the one that produces the huge dumpers. These start in New Mexico and grab gulf moisture before barelling up the Ohio River Valley, bringing all-day or multiple day storms often producing a foot or more of snow over Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio and Michigan. These can shut down a city, but afterwards everything looks nice and it’s usually not too cold. I’ll take these ones anyday.
Alberta Clippers are what would keep me from ever moving back to the upper midwest.

30

[QUOTE=bibliophage]
Because of this rotation the winds on land will blow from the northeast at the height of the strom, hence the name. This despite the fact that the storm itself is moving from the southwest.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting this.

Until I read this, I was confused by the satellite images of the storm on TV that clearly showed a storm moving north along the coast.

Stupid East Coasters, I said to myself, surely a storm coming from the south would have southerly winds … so why do they call this a nor’easter?

Then my ignorance was fought.

And don’t call me Shirley!

31

Note: high and low pressure systems can generate winds from ANY direction on the compass. It all depends on where you are at relative to the system.

One summer day a high pressure system (clockwise flow) blows cool air in from the West, the next day it slides easterly, below your location and pumps in moist air from the ocean and warm gulf stream. You go from 82 w/ low humidity and West winds to 90 and muggy/humid weather with East winds. Same system!

A Nor’ Easter or other low pressure system (counter clockwise) pounds the ocean into the coast with the East winds and temps near 50, the next day the back side of the system is pulling in air from Canada and the remaining moisture and wind is damn near arctic. Same system!

32

[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture]
Nothing like? Meaning no resemblance at all?

Fine, edgmucate me. What does a noreaster have that a “wicked bad snowstorm or violent rainstorm” doesn’t have? And I mean from the point of view of the average Joe standing on the ground looking up at the storm, not the meteorologist looking down from the satellites.
[/QUOTE]
Well, besides the fact that few nor’easters involve thunder and lightning - read this article and see if you think your concept of “thunder storm” sounds it.

I don’t know if I’m going to be able to go to work tomorrow. This afternoon I got within 7/8ths of a mile from my house - I live across the street from a river, ftr - when I encountered the first roadblock, complete with cops and flashing lights. A few hundred yards down the street there was no street. Just water coursing by from one side to the other. So I backtracked and circled back around (ten miles!) and discovered the other way to my house was blocked too. No cops there, though, and I only had to drive about 100 yards before hitting my road, so I went around the roadblock… here’s a couple pictures.

33

[QUOTE=elfkin477]
…read this article and see if you think your concept of “thunder storm” sounds it.
[/QUOTE]

The article calls it a noreaster once and a storm five times. Which is kind of my point. The average Joe is just going to call it a storm. It takes a weather nerd looking at wind directions and pressure developments and so on to decide that it should be called a noreaster.

I wasn’t trying to debate that noreaster ≠ storm, all I originally said was that I don’t hear the term used by your average Joe on the street:

34

[QUOTE=Philster]
Note: high and low pressure systems can generate winds from ANY direction on the compass. It all depends on where you are at relative to the system.

One summer day a high pressure system (clockwise flow) blows cool air in from the West, the next day it slides easterly, below your location and pumps in moist air from the ocean and warm gulf stream. You go from 82 w/ low humidity and West winds to 90 and muggy/humid weather with East winds. Same system!

A Nor’ Easter or other low pressure system (counter clockwise) pounds the ocean into the coast with the East winds and temps near 50, the next day the back side of the system is pulling in air from Canada and the remaining moisture and wind is damn near arctic. Same system!
[/QUOTE]

Actually, a true nor’easter (which, I will point out again the current storm system in the NE of North America is NOT) doesn’t do that. It gets offshore somewhere down in the mid-south area, then, once the low’s center is off shore, diverts up the coast to go around an area of high pressure often located out over Bermuda area. As it does this, the coastline of the NE gets hammered by the NE winds of the “back side” of the low.

But, yes, your main point is accurate, in that where the wind is coming from with a low pressure system depends upon where the center of the low is relative to you. With a hurricane, this can have VERY important consequences (storm surge).

And Patty, the main reason you aren’t hearing the term nor’easter much with the current storm is partly because it’s a regional thing, but mostly because it’s the wrong term for this storm. Only idiot reporters (and, possibly the annoying schlubs on the Weather Channel who love to spout terminology they think will make people tune in and stay tuned in) are using the term with this storm. :slight_smile:

35

[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq]
Actually, a true nor’easter (which, I will point out again the current storm system in the NE of North America is NOT) doesn’t do that. It gets offshore somewhere down in the mid-south area, then, once the low’s center is off shore, diverts up the coast to go around an area of high pressure often located out over Bermuda area. As it does this, the coastline of the NE gets hammered by the NE winds of the “back side” of the low.

[/QUOTE]

You are assuming that one is in New England for a Nor’ Easter. Forget the recent storm. In New Jersey, we deal with Nor’ Easters, and the last event from the back side of the Nor’ Easter will see us experiencing North West winds.

Forget thinking exclusively about what New England is getting. The world of pain and Nor’ Easters doesn’t begin and end in New England.