And there it is again! I’m going to start taking bets on how quickly some variation on the phrase “most fights go to the ground” crops up in any future thread that has anything to do with fighting. It’s like an SDMB thread can’t contain the words “fight”, “punch”, or “kick” without that phrase showing up.
I see no problem with a woman getting the better of a drunk man. It’s all about avoiding the leverage that a larger opponent can impose. The advantage of being larger/stronger is of course connecting with a good blow. Mass has it’s privileges. If the larger opponent can pull off a bear-hug then it’s easy to break some ribs.
But both opponents share similar weak points which size does not improve upon. Everything from the neck up is vulnerable. And it’s supper easy for a smaller opponent to shoulder butt someone and knock them down. Better still if there are some chairs for a drunk to fall over.
As for the monkey climbing video, I can’t imagine that working out in a Judo tournament. Launching your own mass forward with both feet off the ground is a gift to your opponent.
Of course, you can’t discount the saying “the world’s best swordsman only needs to fear the world’s worst.” I’ve even heard martial arts instructors say that outside of competitions they’re by far at their most cautious when sparring with white belts. Because untrained, inexperienced fighters often flail around and are wildly unpredictable. Their form is so bad that you can’t always read their body language – if you have formal martial arts training, you’re used to fighting people who at least kind of know what they’re doing, not people just trying to survive/inflict real harm. You’re also used to at least somewhat pulling your punches.
That’s not to say that a martial artist, regardless of size, gender, etc won’t have an advantage, they will, but if they’re fighting a person with no training there is a decent chance they’ll get smacked before they learn how to react.
True, especially the drunk part.
Attacks like that can work, but it is not a high-percentage move.
The gif is a demo, for sure.
Regards,
Shodan
Right, that’s why I doubt the story. I can believe that some small women can beat up some large men, although it would be rare — a professional woman boxer who’s been training several hours a day for several years, yes, but not some housewife who took a self-defense class at the Y.
But I can’t believe a big macho man would square off with a petite woman in the first place. Not even drunk. Slap, or even punch, a woman in a momentary rage, yes. “Take it outside” and square off with a small women in front of an audience, no. The more macho the guy, the less likely it is to happen.
I dunno, doesn’t seem like he accomplished anything except exposing his balls to his opponent. If someone used that on me in a street fight I would have tried to pile-drive his head into the ground on the way down. He presented himself with an opportunity to use his own momentum against himself. On the rare instance I got to throw an attacker to the ground I took advantage of the hard surface they were going to hit and threw my weight into it. Driving your opponent’s shoulder or hip into a hard object softens them up nicely. They still get back up but you can see it in their face. It hurt enough that it takes a toll and they know all you did was use their momentum against them.
Size matters in fights. The greater the difference, the more it matters. Skill can make up some of that difference. Very few people have enough skill to make up for a considerable size difference. However, there are plenty of other factors like intelligence and stamina that can make a bigger difference than either size or skill in a fight.
yes it matters but a small woman can lift a large man off his feet with a shoulder butt and send him flying backwards. Chairs and tables make a nice addition to this maneuver. She can break his jaw with her fist or better yet her elbow. She can break his nose with the palm of her hand. she can strike his throat effectively with 3 fingers. She has a longer strike zone with her leg than a man’s arm.
so there are options. Unless this is some kind of competitive venture then such an exchange is a matter of self defense and that means stopping an attack long enough to get away or gain access to a weapon.
That depends entirely upon your understanding of asian languages my friend.
Its up to you to verify your statement.
You are definitely a troll?
I disagree, and stand by my statement. Very few people have enough skill to make up for a considerable size difference. The kind of things you describe happen very rarely. And it has nothing to with gender. A small person who comes close enough to me to attempt striking at my nose, throat or jaw will end up on the floor unless they are very well trained martial artist. The reach for a kick is no longer than an arm above the waist, the waist of the kicker, so the smaller person may not even have the reach with their foot that the larger person has with their fist.
No, definitely not unique. I taught Seibukan for like 20 years and had some women students, something I always advised to them and really everyone is if you’re interested in self defense (I considered martial arts separate from that BTW) you need to get used to getting hit in the head.
As someone who spent too much time in rough bars I can tell you that in a lot of fights the guy who can handle getting punched in the head/face is the guy who will win. (He also tends to be the guy on top when the fight goes to ground about 10 seconds in, which is usually when the loser is apparent.) You can get knocked unconscious from a head blow but in all reality most head blows are less damaging to your ability to fight than blows to body…there is just an emotional or intellectual “bad response” to getting hit in the head for many people who aren’t used to it, and it throws them off. In a real fight you can’t get flustered.
I think it’s good to teach women self-defense techniques but I also think that at some level most determined male attackers can overwhelm even a trained woman. At 6’5" and well over 200 lbs I’d estimate less than 1% of the women on the planet could beat me in an actual fight. It can be hard to counter someone with extreme size/strength advantages who is willing to just overwhelm you and take a few initial blows in the process. That’s one reason why I’m such an advocate of gun rights, a few shots to center mass and the biggest man is on the ground just the same as the smallest woman. Tasers can easily misdeploy and OC spray can and is overcome by sheer aggression–large caliber bullet wounds are not.
Every fight I was ever in was with a larger opponent. I’ve been successful using a bit of Judo and basic understand of human anatomy. I was always the one attacked.
Given what you’ve said you would be the poster child of surprised if you tried to manhandle a woman with a bit of training. You’ve already assumed a little girly girl can’t hurt you.
In the real world there are no rules or referees. It doesn’t take much skill to hurt someone.
As a large guy (older now) somewhat trained in different ways of physical fighting the much smaller men I would have genuine fear of and would never willingly fight would be boxers. Even very small skilled boxers have extremely effective punching ability and are also generally just all around tough guys whose business it is to get hit on a regular basis. Boxers have a lot of training around mitigating the effects of being punched, neck exercises to make your head less likely to snap around, stances where you can take a punch better and experience rolling with punches. That, combined with extremely fast hand speed makes them very formidable.
I’ve yet to meet a man who can take a knee to the balls or an elbow to the upper jaw or 2 palm heals into the chin. I’ve broken multiple bones in a judo tournament with less effort than it takes to screw in a light bulb. It’s just a matter of knowing the weak points. Most bar fights are by people with no experience or awareness of what is around them.
Yes at 6’5" and 200 lbs you have a significant advantage in a structured fight with a referee. You’re in fight mode and there are expectations of rules and what’s about to unfold. But in a room full of props it’s a candy land of opportunity against the kind of jerk described by the op. It’s so easy to shoulder butt someone to the ground and unless he’s wearing a helmet the next blow is little Suzy kicking all his teeth down his throat or a knee to the forehead.
The only bar fight I never intervened with was between 2 women. They were seriously intent on hurting each other in ways I had never contemplated.
Hi, Morsontologica…it’s against the rules to call other people a troll in this forum. You may do so in the BBQ Pit all you want, however.
Don’t do it in this forum again.
You must be highly skilled, or there was not a considerable size difference, or the fight was won based on factors other than size or skill.
I’ve made no such assumption. I do assume anyone considerably smaller than me that is not very skilled will suffer for trying to attack me unless they can introduce factors other than size and skill. If they are smart they won’t get close to me and if I were stupid they could easily wear me out. But generally considering size versus skill, it takes considerable skill to overcome a size differential.
Boxers are highly skilled martial artists. But even in boxing it is rare for a boxer to prevail with a considerable size disadvantage.
Tournaments are meaningless in comparison to an actual fight. They’re just literally night and day, I’m someone who did martial arts tournaments for 20 years when I was younger and also occasionally got in real fights, they just aren’t comparable.
But yes, a solid blow to the chin or upper jaw is highly effective but the speed at which many “street fights” develop you aren’t always going to get a chance for that.
Knee the balls on the other hand, I have seen men keep going through those.
I’m actually a good bit over 200. But I have a significant advantage in an unstructured fight without a referee as well. I think someone trained in self defense has advantages over a drunk idiot, which is often the situation in a “bar fight” but not always. One of the toughest guys I ever knew had a big argument with a guy at a bar and then it simmered down. Twenty minutes later the guy came from nowhere and cracked a pool cue over his head, he went down like a sack of bricks (and the assailant got his ass kicked by four guys.) There’s not martial arts or training technique to protect you from being bludgeoned over the head from behind unaware.
But yes, generally “skill” can overcome size, but the greater the size disparity the more skilled the smaller person will need to be. If someone wants to use a weapon then all bets are off, the person who uses a weapon will almost always beat an unarmed person. This is why humans use weapons.
Most fights I’ve seen in my life a few punches are exchanged and then it goes to the ground very quickly, where size and strength dominate. Then it’s over. That’s like 90% of fights right there. And in those type of fights martial arts often will not end up being part of it. I was also a wrestler in High School and wrestled some as an adult and can tell you even wrestling doesn’t usually come to play when a fight goes to ground. Too much constant hitting and pushing for most wrestling moves to get employed before the fight is broken up.
Judo and other martial arts are great, but by far the most reliable way for a small person to defeat a big person is with a firearm.
It’s also worth mentioning very few bar fights are the result of one innocent sober martial artist being accosted by a drunk idiot. Most bar fights both parties are drunk and that significantly impacts how the fight goes. Further, many of the ones I’ve seen start with a sucker punch which when done to another drunk person means their martial arts training is of limited utility.
The real utility for martial arts is more in learning to be aware of your surroundings and “ready to respond” if someone tries to assault you while you are going about your business. In those situations while it will still be difficult for a small woman to straight up beat down a much larger man sufficient to stop the attack, skill in escaping common holds used by an untrained assailant and skill in defending yourself can result in the attack ending because you’ve either made yourself too difficult a target or given yourself an escape vector. Whether someone is looking to mug/rape/kill a woman they usually aren’t looking for a long drawn out fight, and fighting significantly helps your chances at avoiding those bad results, and trained self defense amplifies your efforts.
But I still think at the end of the day a woman serious about protecting herself should consider a firearm.
when I was playing soccer I took Judo. A lot of my soccer buddies took karate. I learned to stay arms length away from them and did very well sparring with them. Of course, we would just tag each other without trying to hurt but my leg was longer and more powerful than any of their arms. boxing is great if you’re opponent lets you in.
But this all comes down to the element of surprise. Men don’t expect a fight from women. Self defense is a no-rules anything goes event. Beer bottles over the head, combs in the eye, hair pulling, knee balling, sucker punching anything goes.