Relationships in the 21st Century...becoming extinct?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I am beginning to wonder: Just what IS a relationship these days, and does anyone really have them anymore?

The way life works these days, most single adult people are doing one, or more, of three things:
[li]getting a higher education[/li][li]steadily working a full time job, or multiple jobs[/li][li]caring for their families if they are single parents[/li]
So, I ask you, in today’s society, are people not “supposed” to have relationships? I don’t know many people who have TIME for a relationship, and if they do, it may only be a few hours a week/month. Does a few hours a week or month constitute a relationship?

Today’s society is seemingly geared toward “professionalism.” People are married to their jobs, married to their finances, married to their educations, and so on. For those whom are already married to a spouse, how much time do you truly get to spend together? I suspect it is not a great deal of time.

What is really confusing is, if you are not doing at least one, or more of the three items of point above, you are viewed as undateworthy. OTOH, If you DO foot the bill for any of these, and are considered desirable, when do you have TIME for dating or relationships? It’s the oxymoron standard. If you’re not a “professional” you can’t date. If you are a “professional” you don’t have TIME to date. UGH!

Teemings, what’s your take on this? To those of you who are in relationships, married or not married, how much time do you get together, and is it enough? How do you manage it?

Relationships seem to have become as “expendable” as, say, watching television. You either have time for it or don’t, or you think it is a waste of time. If you miss it, it’s no big deal, it’s just an “amusement” and has no real substance to life. Has society degraded so much that relationships have become nothing more than “playthings?” I see it so much, so often, with so many people, and have even been through it myself. It’s almost like society is saying: “People don’t matter anymore. Look out for number one, and screw everyone else.”

I can’t be overtly negative about single parents having this problem, because providing for their kids should come first. I just find it tragic that for those, like myself, who are childless single adults, don’t seem to be “allowed” to have a relationship. I know, because of the demands of everyday modern life, I will end up falling into the trap, as well. Prices are rising … people have rent to pay, things to maintain, food to buy, utilities to pay, gas to put in their cars, and so on. Survival isn’t easy these days. That still doesn’t mean we should forfeit the privilege of having relationships, does it?

2

What? Huh? Life is about balance. I balance priorities like work and my relationship. Frankly, I like that Mr. Cranky and I do other things other than just focus on each other. It makes him more interesting when he goes out into the wide world and does his own thing. I am sure he feels the same way about me. I’ve got work, I’ve got school, I’ve got Junior League, I’ve got my book club… each of those cuts into our family time, but they make me a better person when we’re together. And no, those activities are not all about getting more “stuff.” Going to my book club doesn’t get us a DVD player, or put money in Cranky Jr’s college fund.

Frankly, I think you’re generalizing because you’re frustrated about your own life. Millions of people manage to have relationships and still do the things you see as conflicts. You say you see “so many people” who see relationships as throwaway diversions, that looking out for #1 is more important. I think of the people I know, and I see something completely different.

MSK, you look around you and come up with some very odd “rules” about life to explain why things aren’t going your way. I’m telling you that I think you have the rules wrong. You make numerous comments (in numerous threads, not just this one) that suggest you believe strongly that you’re doing everything right, while the world around you is just wrong/immoral/materialistic/dumb/unappreciative of your best qualities. You rail against the people you work with, the women you try to meet, the women you’d only hypothetically like to try to meet, the society that seems to conspire to leave a guy like you lonely and unfulfilled. It’s a standard running theme. But it seems to not occur to you that maybe you’ve got it wrong.

Maybe it’s not that society is so anti-relationship. Maybe there are things you need to change to make it more likely you’ll get into one. They say “if trying harder doesn’t help, then try DIFFERENTLY.”

3

Nice post, Cranky, and i just want to add one thing:

You sound very provential when you talk about “everybody” having this same lifestyle. It suggests that you don’t know that many people. There are plenty of us hippy-libral arts types around, plenty of geeks, plenty of starving artists, plenty of bohemians. And all these different types of people come in both genders, so they tend to date each other.

Go meet some differnet people–move if you have to, go back to school, join a club, take dance lessons, become a whitewater rafter, whatever. Right now oyu sound like a man who is losing a game they don’t even enjoy playing. So don’t.

4

Cranky…

I will not argue with you or anyone about your comments. In fact, I agree with some them. You make some very good points. All I have to say at this point is a three-fold question:

[li]Makes you both more interesting, how?[/li]
[li]How much time do you spend together, on average per day/week?[/li]
How do you know when you have achieved “balance?”

5

Cranky & Manda JO: One more question: Do I really sound that down, most of the time?

If so, then maybe I do need to change some things. Thanks for your input. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

6

Question 1: He sees things, notices things, hears things that I don’t, and he thinks about them in a different way. Time spent doing his own thing (or working, for that matter) lets that be fully realized. Of course, I don’t mean to imply that in contrast to this, we automatically react the same way to things we see or do TOGETHER, but he brings more to the relationship (in my opinion) when he has a healthy life outside of it. He’s got stories to tell. Experiences to relate. And also distance from the idea of “us,” which I also think is important. He’s an individual, and I’d hate for him to start to be less of one because we were spending every minute together, or because he gave up some of his hobbies or interests because I didn’t share them.

Question 2: Well, we spend a few hours together in the morning, plus time together when I get home from work. So, I’d say, 6-7 hours a day on weekdays, (not counting the hours spent sleeping in the same bed) less time spent on individual errands or meetings. Sometimes he meets me for lunch so we get a kid-free hour together on weekdays. On weekends, we spend most of the day together, though of course he goes to his shop for a few hours or I go do some reading–we don’t spend every minute next to one another.

Question 3: I don’t have a good yardstick for “balance;” I can just tell when I haven’t achieved it. I feel crazy, harried, disconnected. Or I might start griping at Mr. Cranky unfairly. I usually find I’ve erred on the side of too much work, rather than too much time together.

FTR, during some periods (such as when we go on vacation or when I was on maternity leave), we do spend nearly every waking minute together. That isn’t so bad, either. I thought we’d drive each other nuts, but we don’t.

And do you sound that down? Well, to me you do. I mean, you do talk about more whimsical stuff too, but when it comes to your love life and social life you seem to consistently express how disappointed you are with the world. And that’s what’s key, I think. You don’t sound down about your social life, you sound down about how the world is failing to provide you with the social life you think a guy like yourself ought to have. That’s how it sounds to my Cranky Old Man ears, anyhow.

7

And I’m talking about myself as well. Could it be that you and I are living this insular life surrounded by others of our ilk, which just happens to be the target market for pop culture and advertising (if you make a distinction between those two)? When our role models are Ally McBeal and Fox Mulder, who wouldn’t feel the only sanctioned relationship available is with our jobs, that “romantic partners” are just there for grazing?

I do believe that Manda JO and Cranky are right, probably most people have vital relationships that are important to them, but they live off the radar. It takes some searching to find them.

8

MSK,

Well I know how you feel. I work a full time job in a Corporate environment, go to college full time, volunter as a paintball ref on the weekends and I’m training for a marathon.(Atlanta City Marathon, btw) I’m only 20 years old though, so I desperatly want and need to maintain an active social and love life.

But I don’t seem to have any problem doing this. In fact I see the people I’m dating more than I can handle. I think that it all really comes down to how well you use the time in your day. How productive are you? Because I have to say that while I do quite a bit I never feel overwelmed because I know how to prioritize and orgainze.

If you learn how to manage your time really well, (I’m not saying you don’t know how) then I think that you can find time for anything. Including a love life. Hope this helps.

Tyklfe

9

I have a friend, MSK, who would agree with you 100%. In fact, I don’t think he feels that he’s “fated” to his situation as much as he chose it. And [sub][sup]as much as I know it’s none of my dern bidness[/sup][/sub] it drives me batty. I got a four-year degree and graduated with highest honors…while in a long-term relationship. I’m now working in my first post-college job and, again, am maintaining a healthy relationship. Heck, I’m even planning a wedding! And keeping my post count up! :smiley:
I don’t think it takes every ounce of my being and every hour of my day to do my job. Nor was it that demanding being an undergraduate. Other people–whether my SO or my close friends–are important to me, and I’m willing to make the commitment to keep those relationships going.

My answer to this would obviously be skewed, as my SO and I live together. So, even when we’re not actively engaged with each other (talking, planning, going somewhere together), there’s always that presence of having him around.

sigh I’m saddened even at the thought that a television and relating to your fellow human beings are on the same level.

10

MSK I agree with you for the most part. Relationships have gotten more…I hate to say expendable…um, let’s say “generic” for many people. I look at my friends that are dating and it’s always the same old routine - dinner & a movie, or a night drinking with a little bedthumping afterwards - nothing very exciting just a very vanilla relationship.

This isn’t to say that I think dating should consist of montain climbing or anything extreme, but there needs to be that ever elusive spark. A fulfilling night should be one when you’re with the person who makes your evening complete. You can sit in your living room discussing carpeting for all the difference it makes, you’re with him (or, in my perfect world, her).

If you’re with someone who makes your heart jump in that special way, a few hours a week is enough. Well, maybe not enough, but the magic of those few hours should make up for their scarcity.

Well, forgive the sugary sweetness, and I’m sorry if it came off even slightly preachy (I get kinda blunt when I’m tired), but that’s my take on it. Granted, I haven’t found the girl I want to have a relationship yet, so I may be remembering old memories much too fondly, but that’s the way I remember things being. YMMV.

11

Well, some very interesting and insightful responses here so far. I don’t expect anyone to see eye to eye with me, but a couple people seem to get the gist of where I am coming from.

Cranky… You hit the nail right on the head when you said,

I think the problem may lie in that I know what I want. In light of that, you may possibly be inclined to think I am too picky, or maybe my standards are too high. Although it could be possible by some opinions, I don’t feel this is the case. As a matter of fact, I have lowered my standards and become more flexible in some major areas. Don’t get me wrong: By lowering my standards, I simply mean expanding my horizon, not demoralizing my standards. For example, a couple years ago, I would not even consider dating a single mother. That has since changed and I am willing to give a chance to most willing ladies who fall in that category. I realized that by ruling out single moms, I was ruling out a lot of potentially good people. That’s a pretty big change, IMHO. You have to get a feel for each person, cause everyone is different.

You may be right as well. It troubles me greatly to think of searching for and finding love, as a “game.” Yet, tragically, that is how most people view it. I guess the saying applies: It’s not if you win or lose, it’s how you play the game. ::::sigh:::: The only time I am a poor sport is when headgames are involved. No one wants, needs, or deserves that, regardless if it is a part of life.

12

But that’s not what I mean at all. What I mean is that the are an infinite number of ways that two people can meet and come together and fall in love and make a life together and you seem to be stuck in one particular rut–for example, you seem to only look at women who value “professionalism” (and there are a great many who don’t) and then bemoan the fact that they demand you have a profession. You seem only to look at women who expect men to have a busy, active life nad then resent the fact that having a busy active life keeps you from these women. There are many, many of us who take life at a slower pace, who do things non-tradiditonal ways, who have standards that are very different from this set of standards that you have already said that you hate and which you don’t like striving to live up to. That is the game I am talking about. There are a lot of other ways to play the game of love, and if the version you are trying to play now makes you miserable, you can switch. (And it is not like trying something different is “lowering your standards”–experimenting with a differenct type of woman for a few dates does not mean you have to marry her).

13

I think Cranky hit it on the head when she said Life is Balance. You can have a relationship along with a career and an education. My SO and I have been together for almost three years, with both of us working and going to school. The past few weeks have been difficult, though, due to some new (yet temporary) circumstances (I started my externship; he started a new job, so our schedules don’t match up as well as they did–and we basically don’t live together at the moment–he stays here 2 or 3 days out of the week, usually when I have the night off). But you know what has kept us going through the storm? The fact that we have built a solid foundation in our relationship, based on trust and respect–both of which take time to cultivate in a couple. We both respect each other’s desires to better ourselves, which means we sometimes have to sacrifice some time that we would be able to spend together, and we’re better people for it. It’s just that the time we do spend together, we make it quality time, even if it’s just going for a hike, hanging out in bed reading, or dining out.

Sorry, I just think that’s crap. If having a relationship is something you want in your life, you find the time to date, and build the relationship. And, for professionals (which I take to mean, white-collar, college educated workers) not dating, how are all these blue-collar workers finding girlfriends and wives? Of course there are women who want only to date “professional” men, but there are plenty of women who are happy to date men that are good, honest men–and they don’t always care that they work in a warehouse (or whatever). I started dating my guy when he worked for his dad, as a delivery person.
If you’re so unlucky in your love life, maybe it’s time to look at yourself seriously and perhaps find what may be keeping you from being with someone special, rather than trying to blame fill in the blank (society, women, childhood traumas, the media). People often repeat patterns of behavior, and pick certain kinds of people for relationships, which are destined to fail or to become serious problems (for whatever reason–fear of commitment/attachment, abuse issues, drug issues, etc.).

I have to wonder, though, when you say you’ve “lowered your standards”. Something about that just sorta sets my teeth on edge. I’d hate to feel that you asked me out because you’ve lowered your standards well enough that I’m worthy of a date with you? It smacks of someone that has a really high view of themselves, which can turn a woman off (do not confuse this with confidence, which a dose of is a good thing).

14

I would like to clarify some things…
Manda JO, I think I have unintentionally mislead you, and possibly the other readers here, in light of your above comments. I do not deliberately “seek out” the “professional” types. It just happens that way.

A good example is, when I meet someone and they ask what my occupation is, and I tell them, they are often rattled by the fact that I don’t have a particular trade, and that I have held many diverse kinds of jobs. Many of them, see that as an insecurity, that I lack focus, am immature, and can’t hold a job. They often verbalize this themselves.

True, a lot of them don’t care what I do for a living, as long as I am doing something honest to provide and care for myself. I suppose this would be the majority, in most cases.

OTOH, there are those significant percentile who would still be disturbed by the fact, that I have never been to college, and am (hypothetical example:) tossing burgers at Mc Donald’s, at age 31, when most adults that age have some sort of established trade. My point is, it’s not where I am working that is the problem, but where I am in that work. So, using my hypothetical example, many people expect a 31 year old working at Mc Donald’s to be working their way up the ladder, towards manager trainee or whatever, not still tossing burgers. This is the kind of thing I am talking about.

Java, I can see how that may appear as such. However, that is not true. I am far from egotistical. Anyone who knows me in person can verify that. I don’t think that I am any royalty or better than anyone else. I am actually quite humble. I am just me, a regular human being, like everyone else. I apologize if it comes across as anything else.

FWIW, yes, I admit I do have some issues that I need to work on. Most folks do. If anyone feels compelled to go into depth over what my issues are, then maybe we can do that. My email address is open here and so are my im’s. I know the SDMB isn’t a counseling center, but I also know there are some very caring people here. Thanks, again, to everyone for their input.