Religion, Fact? I think not

Great Debates
21

In the interest of accuracy (and keeping this at the top so Phaedrus can get whacked some more):
Phaedrus used lemmings as an example of animals that act en masse with no individual behavior. This is undoubtedly based on the common perception that lemmings periodically kill themselves.

Lemmings do not perform mass suicide. Occaisonally, one or two will fall of a cliff during migration, but not all of them.

The common concept of suicidal lemmings stems from a old Disney nature film were lemmings were * forced * to run over a cliff because it would be, in the filmmakers’ minds, better somehow.

How’s THAT for off-topic?

–John

Bon mot- 45 cents. Non sequiters half price.

22

So we owe you $0.225, John? (.sig line)

Phaedrus, if I understand you correctly, you dislike (numerous forms of) group behavior, though you may like or even love people who fall into those groups. You do not dislike homosexuals, you dislike homosexual activists, to take a primary example people have picked up on?

Is that approximately what you were saying?

23

Polycarp, a homosexual activist is not necessarily engaging in “group behaviour.” If I choose to be an activist for floppy disks, and picket high-tech companies for subjecting the poor devils to the inhumane treatment of being shoved into little slots all day long, there isn’t necessarily a group which has told me to do this, or whose policies I subscribe to (and I hope there isn’t such a group, but these days, who knows).

There are “homosexual activists” who may speak for the group to which they belong, and there are “homosexual activists” who may say that they speak for all homosexuals (and these can probably be derided in the same way that Satan derides those who claim to speak for all Christians), but both of these are a far cry from any sort of “mob mentality.”

To claim that you “hate groups” shows an inherent lack of understanding as to the purpose of like-minded people getting together. And that’s a “best case” description.

Rich

24

Rich, I take your point, and concur. Though I will note that the majority of activists for anything do tend to organize in groups, as a nearly universal rule.

My distinct impression was that Phaedrus was trying, somewhat incoherently, to express something significant and conflicting to him, and that it had to do with not disliking individual peoples but group behavior. I was fishing for what exactly he did mean, and would still like to see what it was. Sorry if my example sidetracked the thread slightly.

25

Yeah, I’ll concede that. I was just being my usual argumentative self. :wink:

So would I. It’s hard for me to imagine any reasonable explanation for what was posted that doesn’t have so many qualifications that the original post is all but invalidated.

Rich

26

Maybe y’all made him uncomfortable. Sounds like he will no longer respond to anyone who questions his views. Or maybe just anyone who wants to clarify an apparent inconsistency in his statements.

-andros-

27

Phaedrus said:

Nope, you don’t have to. Of course, this is Great Debates, and if you’re going to debate something, you will be asked about it. And if you repeatedly refuse to answer, you will probably not like the various names and labels that are applied to you. But, hey, that’s your perogative.

28

Ok, in reading through some of the posts that actually relate to what I am talking about I have a many more comments.

I realize that there are more communities out there that have similar problems with regards to those that blatently make waves by pushing Christian morality. However, for me having lived in Grand Junction (kind of a “who gives a shit what you do, just be nice” city to Denver where it’s a big enough city that most people think the same in a more metropolitan way…whatever that is.

What frustrates me is that there is not only organizations like Focus on the Family (seen a few bumper stickers around here: “Focus on your own damn family”) but there is Colorado for Christian Values, The Christian Coalition and a few other sorts of groups that claim home here.

What has happened is, the division of the people of this city is becoming wider and wider because of these groups. In fact there are two business men here in town that I will never do business with. One being Will Perkins and the other is Ed Bircham.

Both men know my father, in fact my father has known those two zealots most of his life. My father was a well known business man in town (now partially retired) and even though he has very conservative beliefs, he offered jobs to people who needed second chances in life, something I bet those two dickweeds would never do unless the prospective employee signed up for some religious training.

It’s one thing to spout through your asshole and it’s a whole other thing to be as kind as you can, even in a business way, to those around you, regardless of your religious beliefs.

It’s time for the religious organizations in Colorado Springs, or most anywhere, to either accept the differences or go to some freakin uninhabited island and make your own damned country!

It just makes me sick to see that this community and others around the country are being torn apart over so-called Christian values. Enough is enough. You have a cause cool, but don’t start trampling your morals on my rights, as given by the constitution of this United States.

Stay out of my bedroom, I like having pre-marital sex. Stay out of my gynocologists office, what ever medical treatment I need I want it to be safe. Evolution is theoretical science…ummm fossils speak loudly here… so let the teachers teach it as theory. Your Adam and Eve has no physical proof.

Sex and violence on TV is ok. Don’t force the government to police what your children are watching. If you can’t control your own damn children, why the hell did you have them?

Sex and violence on the internet. Sheesh, learn the freakin computer, but don’t try to force laws that; number one could never be enforced (aka WORLD WIDE WEB) and number two, if you can’t control your own damn children, why the hell did you have them?

And last but not least, take the basics of your religion (which is taught in most religions I have ever learned) to not judge! The only being that has any power to judge in any form is God.

(so I am judging, or maybe just trying to bring some of the people who stand in the middle out to speak too.) damned leftists, damned rightists…there is a damned middle we can meet!

29

What? You didn’t enjoy our sidetrack into hypocracy.

Again, I can’t agree with you more.

That isn’t journalism. It’s ping-pong.
—Bob Levey, Washington Post columnist