Sure, I can be more precise. Luckily, very few Democrats are Illiberal Progressives.
Luckily (for you) you can interpret that nonsense phrase any way you want.
The top result is r/communism101 on Reddit, for me. I’ve certainly heard it from self-described progressives before, along with “liberal ghouls”. Although googling, apparently both rightists and leftists like that one.
As far as I can tell the term “liberal” has been so thoroughly demonized that it usually means “people I don’t like” rather than any actually defined political position.
Americans do tend to misuse ‘liberal’ to mean vaguely left-wing. ‘Progressive’ would be someone who advocates for social reform. ‘Liberal’ would be someone who believes in individual rights and civil liberties, and in general thinks people should have the freedom to make their own choices if they aren’t hurting anyone else. Like @Babale said, they aren’t mutually exclusive, but they aren’t synonymous, either. Progressives are a minority of Americans, and they’re a minority among D voters, too.
Or centrists, or moderate right wingers. It all depends on who is doing the accusing.
I believe in all those things, but still consider myself strongly illiberal (because liberalism also embraces capitalism).
Thing is, that’s an idiosyncratic usage of the word “illiberal” that basically guarantees you’ll be misunderstood. Illiberalism means tyranny and bigotry in the ears of most people. I mean, just google it; not a word about capitalism; lots of words about:
Opposed to liberal principles; restricting freedom of thought or behavior.
Narrow-minded; prejudiced; bigoted; intolerant
Current populist leaders—especially within Western states—have the tendency to promote illiberal values, a notable example being the exclusion of immigrants and openly xenophobic statements.
Intolerance Bigotry
Injustice Iinequity
Inequality Narrowmindedness
Just to skim the first page of results.
fair enough - “not at all a liberal” sound any better to you?
Although I am apparently a left-wing illiberal by Enyedi’s recent categorization:
Left‐Wing Illiberalism
The final type is left‐wing illiberalism. This category covers anti‐capitalistic, egalitarian, and collectivistic criticisms of liberal democratic principles. Positions that express a willingness to sacrifice freedom of expression, pluralism, neutral state, limited government, or privacy in return for social justice, equality, and progress belong here.
“Not a liberal” is much better.
I don’t know who Enyedi is, but they sound like they are talking about dictatorships?
Not just dictatorships, but the whole broad category of “illiberal democracy” (or “electoral authoritarianism”). But in talking about that topic, they develop a categorization for types of illiberalism (not just types of illiberal democracies).
That’s a useful description. These are presumably the illiberal progressives that @Babale objects to (I do too). Unfortunately, it’s increasingly common for progressives to be left-wing illiberals, and they usually dislike liberals because liberals are not willing to sacrifice freedom of expression, pluralism, neutral state, limited government, or privacy in return for social justice, equality, and progress.
Meanwhile other types of illiberalism have rapidly gained ground on the right, so liberalism is being assailed from both sides.
Good. Maybe the liberal movement can look at what it’s doing wrong, then, and be better.
The illiberal left is second only to the illiberal right in being the absolute last place anyone should go to for advice on how to run things.
All we have to do is look at places run illiberally to see why we shouldn’t be taking their advice.
My brand of left illiberalism doesn’t run any place, so it’ll be a quick search…
I rest my case.
How about some trial runs at the small or medium scale before you take things national?
Your “case” is appeal to ignorance?
Happy for liberals to drop support for capitalism at any scale.
No, my case is the fact that “Illiberal Leftists” can’t run shit in the real world. If it was a viable ideology, there would be some functional examples of it.
(In before “well it would be viable if the evils of capitalism didn’t sabotage it!”)
As members of the Reality-Based Community, I doubt you will see Liberals drop their support of the single most productive economic system which is responsible for more progress and prosperity than any other system in favor of a fairy tale. Regardless of whether that fairy tale is right or left wing flavored.
Also, it’s incredibly rich that you claim I’m the one appealing to ignorance when you are the one saying your untested, unproven, completely theoretical economic system is better than the economic system that gave us the modern world.
Which economic system?
The one described as:
I’m sure your “point” is that I don’t know what specific hypothetical system Dibble is a fan of. But all of those in theory only systems are untested nonsense.
If you don’t like capitalism and have a better idea, that’s fine. You don’t get what you want by endlessly critiquing the power that capitalism wields. You do it by finding like minded people and creating a community that operates by the principles you hold.
People like to pretend that’s impossible, but it’s not; it happens all the time. It’s just that those ventures fail, because the ideas underlying them are simply not better ideas than capitalism. But rather than accepting that, proponents of these ideologies blame capitalism’s nefarious influence on all of their ills.