Religion

In My Humble Opinion
81

MrMcPlad,

If there was absolute proof of God, that would be excellent. My personal difficulty with religion is that there doesn’t seem to be ANY proof!

I don’t mean this in any aggressive way (I understand that some people have strong faith in their religion), but please can you answer these two questions:

Are there any observable phenomena of any God?

If not, how do you know (apart from your personal faith) that your church is the right one?

P.S. I hope this isn’t a hijack - I would also like to learn the differences between all the Christian sects (how many are there?)

82

So you admit that you cannot prove the existence of God absolutely. Therefore, the question you posed at the start of your post is irrelevant – you can’t do it, so why bother discussing “what if I could”?

83

Actually, given that Mathematics is generally regarded as a science in academic circles, and four out of four dictionaries I checked define Math as a science, you and Matt are out to lunch.

84

How can you spot the Catholics in the audience at Star Wars?
When Obi-Wan Kenobi says “May the force be with you,” the Catholics all say, “And also with you.”
:smiley:

85

And one from someone who briefly hooked up with a group of Buddhists:

Q. What did the Buddhist monk say to the hot dog vendor?
A. Make me one with everything.

86

Ex-Catholic here also.

I’m now currently Wiccan/Pagan with a splash of Athiest. It all depends on how I’m feeling at the time.

87

**MrMcPlad wrote:

Let’s say that I could prove to you, either mathematically or scientifically (or maybe math is a science), that God exists and that Mormonism is true. Using this proof, would you convert? If not, then you would be damned (because you knew the truth, but refused it still). If you would convert,
how would your belief in Mormonism compare to those who needed no proof, but relied on simple faith?

There is a reason God cannot be proven absolutely. Those who denied him would be damned, and there would be no need for faith.**

Two points. 1) Please go over the GREAT DEBATES forum and read the various threads there about the existence of (the)Gods. Especially those started by FriendofGod. You’ll find it enlightening. Every arguement you can present has been answered there.

2)Yes, Mormonism is true. So is Christianity, Wiccan, Buddhism, Judaism, Shinto, Jainism, Hinduism, B’hai, Islam, Satanism, Zoroastrianism, et al. They all have some degree of truth to them. Until you can concretely prove the absolute truth of Mormonism, you’re just blowing so much smoke. Please stop wasting our time and yours.

88

No, they’re not exclusive to them. I know many kind-hearted non-Christians.

89

Erin, does your mother know that Garfield226 knows what you taste like?

90

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kilraven *
**

Well they have to call it something. It certainly isn’t an art.

But even if you call math a science, this is only a semantic argument. The differentiation matt made between science and logic is still valid.

91

i’m an ex-agnostic turned heretic

there’s lots of ways to be a heretic so that label still gives me a lot of room to maneuver.

i wouldn’t laugh at you for reading a bible. i have 3 bibles and a concordance.

you’re PROBABLY all going to get reincarnated anyway, so who cares!

                                              Dal Timgar
92

One more ex Catholic atheist, I attend a UU church.

Re “other religions” - I am somewhat confused as to why so many otherwise sensible people would believe in a specific unprovable, unnecessary story. I just don’t understand why it is “god x”, instead of the IPU. It is frustrating to encounter so many people who claim to be good xtians, convey that they consider themselves better than non-xtians, yet act in what seems to be such a non xtian manner. It is somewhat bothersome to realize that my way of thinking, which makes so much sense to me, is in the overwhelming majority. I don’t understand why all the folks who do believe in some god focus on their difference, often petty, instead of focussing on the fact that they all believe in something that has no basis in reality (scientific or mathmatical). It is troublesome to have believers not understand how disturbing their political agendas may be to nonbelievers. It is a little disappointing that so many people consider themselves incapable of acting morally absent a specific carrot and stick. But, hey, whatever turns your crank. Just don’t go ringing my doorbell while “Buffy” is on, if you know what’s good for you.

betenoir - you really think you should encourage those 2?
Sheesh!

93

Of course I meant minority.

94

Heh, just had to resurrect this, because I’m amused. My beliefs have taken a big turnaround, and now I suppose most would call me an atheist.

95

Thank God you resurrected this, Speaker for the Dead - perhaps now, we can finally solve the mystery of whether mathematics is a science or not, once and for all!

Anyway, since I’ve gone and read the thread, I may as well add my contribution.

I was raised in a very half-arsed Christian environment (not specifically any denomination), but am now an agnostic, although I can’t deny I lean towards being an atheist.

As for those with differing opinions… if a religious person thinks their god will torture me horribly on Judgement Day (or whatever), and yet they hold up said god as being fair (among other things) or even merciful, I find that pretty offensive. Also, as annoying as I find it when people try to convert me, I think that if a person seriously believes that I face eternal damnation, making no effort to convert me seems somewhat inconsiderate.

Consider this situation: if a friend of mine was thinking of walking down a path, but I had reason to believe there was a dead fall there which would result in them suffering horrible injury and possibly death, respect for their belief that there is no dead fall would be far from my mind indeed, and I would go so far as tackling them to the ground to stop their demise. To do less seems cruel, and I’m sure the friend would thank me when I showed him the dead fall later. Naturally, if I was wrong and the dead fall wasn’t there, I’d feel like a bit of a tool, but then when it comes to faith, I find most generally don’t consider the possibility that they’re wrong.

If the situation was reversed, and my friend did nothing to stop me walking down a path they knew was trapped out of respect for my beliefs, I’d be pretty unimpressed.

This analogy might be kind of misleading about my beliefs… I’d prefer it if people don’t try to spread any word at me, because I find it annoying. However, if they don’t, I think that’s a bit harsh, and I’d find it hard to be close friends with such a person. It may seem that those who think I am currently heading for eternal damnation at the hands of a just being can’t win with me, and indeed, this is the case.

If a person’s religious belief contains nothing that I find offensive in this respect, then naturally I have no problem with them. Of course, that’s not to say I don’t think they’re wrong, but people can have differing opinions without coming to blows.

~ Isaac

96

Raised Catholic/Episcopal, now I am an atheist. I feel the idea of religion ought to be obsolete by now. I feel science and the natural universe is so much more awe inspiring than some old white guy sitting on a cloud worrying about who I marry or what I do in the bedroom.

97

Raised Christian, currently atheist.

98

I’m a Catholic, not “ex” like so many here seem to be.

I grew up in Northern Ireland where the question “what religion are you?” has altogether deeper and different meanings.

I liken it to an entire society with constant, low level, paranoia, everyone you meet is subtly trying to determine what side of the fence you’re on.

However very few will ask directly and will instead use different questions to determine your allegiance.

“Whats your name?” (example: Seamus = Catholic, Billy = Protestant)
“Where’re you from?”
“What football team do you support?”
“Who’s your favourite F1 driver?” (Schumacher = Catholic, Hill = Protestant)

And so on, I kid you not…

This is just a sidenote as it amuses me and I play a sort of game where I always answer ambiguously leaving them guessing, you find out a lot more about them than they discover about you as their questions become increasingly desperate :smiley:

Only if someone asks me outright will I tell them. (of course the downside of this is that you can find yourself in difficult situations, I once found myself sitting late at night in an isolated warehouse discussing the situation in NI with what turned out to be hardline loyalists who mistakenly thought I was one of their own…long night)

As for other religions, if its basic tenant is the golden rule “treat other people as you would want to be treated” then its alright by me.

99

It’s interesting that we have so many ex-Catholics. I’m an Episcopalian who’s becoming Catholic. Raised Anglican, but gradually became higher church, and have been gradually assenting to various Catholic dogma.

I don’t aggresively witness. It’s a great way to piss people off, aggressive witnessing. Interestingly enough, when I was in Waco a week and a bit ago, we were sitting in an ice cream shop with one of the good friends we were visitng, and a teenager comes up and asks us if we’d like prayer for anything.

Our friend enquired, and he was from an extremely evangelical extremely Protestant church. We all asked him for prayer about becoming Catholic. I think we’ve probably got a churchful of people praying for us not to become Catholic, now.

I like talking to people of other religions, especially if everyone is civil.

100

Speaker, so what happened?

Here- Charismatic Christian Republican (yeah, I will admit my politics are intertwined with my religion) & Hopeful Universalist (I hope that eventually all souls take their opportunities, in this life or the afterlife, to embrace God/Jesus).
I’m a member of the local Assembly of God but am probably the most liberal one there, yet still a Rightist compared to most everyone else (especially here L).

My views on people of other religions & on those religions themselves. As long as people behave decently towards each other, I think they are giving themselves good chances for a happy afterlife. Jesus is the personal embodiment of God, the Bible is God’s written revelation- any religion not centered on Jesus & the Bible is lacking tho still can contain basic truths of focusing people on their Creator & treating each other kindly.