Just saw Matrix Reloaded, great movie by the way… I will try not to have any spoilers or hints, but (WARNING THERE ARE SOME HINTS STOP READING IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIE), has anyone, who is more efficient in understanding religion gone through and listed all the religious implications in the first two movies? Or thought about it anyway. What did you notice? Like, Neo is obviously a model of Jesus. There are implications, I think, to the Tao Te Ching (darkness in the darkness, yes I think they are in a matrix within a matrix as a system of control.) Then there is also the Tao’s philosophy that the more you try to understand the less you know. Hinduism: the world recycling itself, stopping and starting again. Then there are the 7 that will repopulate Xion (which makes me think of the Zionist movement) and the 7 that repopulated the world after the flood. 7 is just a religious number anyway. Then there are science related quesitons, parallel universes, multiverses.
(If anyone can tell me anyway this relates to Fibonacci numbers I will give you a big ass golden star (I fell down a flight of stairs while lost in the wonders of Fibonacci… I am a dweeb))
The only philosophical implication of The Matrix that I can see is that apparently some nitwit slept through an Introduction to Philosophy class, awoke during a discussion of the idea of brains in vats, and decided to peddle a half-baked film-version to millions of computer-geeks.
Like many have stated before, the philosophy involved in the matrix, while well executed, is not all that deep and it certainly isn’t original. Similarly, the religious references, while numerous, dont seem to be too depply symbolic of much either.
I am certainly one of the people you are talking about. However, having seen the second movie, I give it high marks. Yes, it’s not original, or as a deep as a lot of people like to believe it is. But it certainly has something to it. For an action film, “Reloaded” has more depth than I’ve come to expect.
Having said that, it doesn’t mean this movie presents some new, compelling worldview that has any implications for us in reality. But at least the ideas the plot builds on actually have enough significance to make us care about the characters. The Wachowski brothers deserve some credit for being able to achive this. The Hollywood landscape is littered with big-budget, ambitious movies that couldn’t do it. Think Star Wars: Ep. 1 & 2.
I got the feeling that each of the two movies had different questions for their central themes, what Neo is having to ask himself for him to progress.
I always thought of the first movie’s central question being what is reality? Is it simply what you know or is there something beyond that? And if there is something beyond that should it even matter since you aren’t aware of it?
As for the second movie the main question struck me as being freewill vs. predestination. If you have a purpose are you now lacking freewill? Can the two coexist or does having a purpose automatically dictate behavior? A pretty good question for Neo if he truly is The One considering that in the first movie he expressly stated that he didn’t like the idea of not having freewill.
There’s obviously some crossover between the two movies regarding these questions.
And for anyone who is currently scoffing, yes I know that this is pop-philosophy 101, but I still give the movie high marks for having it because most blockbuster popcorn flicks don’t ask any deeper questions than how badass is the hero and is there going to be any nudity in the sex scene? Discussing this stuff is just part of the fun for this movie and not to be taken too seriously.
RMBNXS, you seem bitter. Half-baked or not, this film still goes far and above the absolute CRAP that is coming from the big movie corporations. I would like to reiterate that: The CRAP that is coming out of Hollywood is something that even the poopsmith is squeamish about. Asylum said it best: “flicks don’t ask any deeper questions than how badass is the hero?” If you have gone to see Reloaded or any other movie lately, you have probably seen the trailer for a Tom Cruise movie where he plays a Samurai (give me a f*cking break…), does this not seem like utter nonsense to you? He reminds me of Forrest Whittaker in Ghost Samurai, Way of the Dog or whatever the hell that shit was. I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe it is half-baked, it still makes an effort toward making people think. That alone will get a movie two thumbs up from me. Granted, there are movies out there like Waking Life, but they are few and far between. The Matrix is mainstream and it actually offers thought… not likely that you will see a movie of this caliber again for a LONG while. I am hoping, however, that this will open a doorway for those who wish to educate with film… not likely, but lets keep our fingers crossed.
Until then… enjoy 2Fast and 2Furious. I am definitely sitting that one out.
P.S. RMBNXS, please share with us what you think are “good” movies. Or email them to me.
I don’t think the writers of MATRIX are presenting a coherent philosophy, ie, a group of concepts that work together as a whole. Haven’t seen Matrix II, but after Matric I, it was pretty clear that the central theme was, simply, Transcendence. I liked it.
Perhaps people would be more helpful if you asked for religious and philosophical references rather than implications. Much of the hostility seems to stem from people’s aversion to the idea that anything in The Matrix is original, but if you call them references, they’re decidedly not original. When I say that Short Circuit references the eariler work Frankenstein, nobody foams at the mouth and accuses Short Circuit of being an abysmal, brain-dead load of tripe.
I get the impression that The Matrix is loaded with more philosophical and religious (and literary) references than just about any film. But I’m not a philosopher; what do I know?
Thank you Shalmanese and Achenar. You’re right. Yeah… I will go do the research myself… blast! Actually, I was after reactions too, which you don’t usually have to ask for on Straight Dope, so I didn’t. Did anybody come away thinking that the movie might be hinting at the thought that any belief or religious inclination just causes confusion and hardship? Like Morpheus believing whole-heartedly that the prophecy will come true and putting the city of Zion, his own ship, and other ships in danger. Then we find out that perhaps the Oracle is not to be believed. Could this trilogy really be saying true understanding is not something you can get from a book or hear from some one else? Possibly, that any attempt at fully understanding the major questions is useless, right now.
FYI… I believe Thoreau was right, “Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.” I think that most attributes that we try to assign to the infinite, or god, or whatever, is ultimately wrong. All we can say about it is that it is an indefinite life producing force. That’s about it.
While it is true that the matrix ask many questions that haven’t been asked before in since fiction, that doesn’t mean it’s bad or even Mediocre, if you torture any work of fiction enough you will be able to label it unoriginal (many of Shakespeare’s plays were adoptions of earlier ones doesn’t make his bad). It’s an honest statement to say that the Matrix films would never have been made if Philip k. Dick had never written a book, but that doesn’t mean the writers and directors didn’t do a good job at crafting their work of Since Fiction.
After having seen Matrix Reloaded today, and hearing not once, not twice, but almost literally a dozen times some variant of the phrase: “You will do what you must do” or “You are where you are supposed to be,” I vowed that if somebody actually had the termerity to talk about the “philosophy” in the Matrix I would crawl through the screen, pass through the phone lines, and emerge in their world to wreak serious havoc upon them.
Well, the biggest thing I see is that the “Matrix” itself does exist, in real life (or rather, what we puny human cyberchips refer to as “real life”.) I’ve known this for a long time, and I’ve written hundreds of journal pages about its meanings and implications (although this article is the only one I’ve published that mentions it, so you’ll just have to take my word for it…)
No, I don’t believe we are all really just Duracell batteries hooked up to feed power to a bunch of vindictive machines. The Matrix movie itself is fiction, and simply takes a real concept filtered through several layers of imagination. But the theory that this whole universe boils down to one big-ass computer simulation – dead on. And “The Matrix” (in my theory) is just the unsorted bits and data that projects our images on the screen. Who pulls our strings? I don’t have a clue, really. But I really do miss the days when I would ask people, “Have you seen the Matrix?” and enjoy their perplexed look. Now everyone just says, “GREAT movie, man!” Ah, well…
In that other big-ass thread discussing the plot, someone suggested that the W. Bros. don’t have any specific theology in mind, but throw in lots of varying imagery in a highly impressionistic way. I think he hit it on the head – everyone who sees the films comes away with something different. After all, it is BY FAR the most highly-debated movie here at the SDMB, even by those who don’t like it!!! (Does anyone discuss the philosophical implications of “Independence Day”, “Spiderman”, or “Dude Where’s My Car”? Nope!)
It’s amazing to me how many people walk away from this film and stamp it as awful. Seems to me they just didn’t understand it immediately and don’t have any other way to vent their confusion.
It’s too bad a lot of critics don’t put in the necessary amount of thought or view the film a second time before rushing off to write a scathing review.
