Actually the Matrix is a very good idea, so is Star Wars so is Harry Potter. All of these use the hero archetype that Joseph Campbell discusses.
Now its interesting to realize that indeed we are hardwired to “believe” and so to me that’s why I consider it a conditioned controlled loop.
I believe that God theory helped people cope without going insane until we got to a level of intelligence that we could cope with being “adrift in the universe with no meaning”
Do I believe in Souls? I’m not sure. I’m not sure I’d be surprised to find out that mankind has an ability to go on “spiritually” after our physical body dies.
But I’m siding with being just done and over with when we die. So I guess I’d say no to the souls.
\Says who? You are talking about something that defies logic and reason. So for you to decide that something that defies logic and reason can’t exist just shows you are narrow minded in the way you view the universe.
What I would honestly like to understand, and never have been able to, is what makes people believe in God. What do they see in their lives or in the lives around them that makes them think “This has to be the stuff of divine creation”?
Because, I look around me, and I see no sign of it. I have never believed in God and, as much as my life has sucked at times, I think I’ve had an amazingly lucky life. If I ask one of my religious friends, it’s proof to them that God is watching over me and guiding me through the rough spots. What? God would rather charm the life of a heathen who has no belief in his existence, yet has no problem letting a 2 year old develop cancer? “He works in mysterious ways,” they say. What’s mysterious about letting some innocent child get raped or killing a plane full of people that, statistically, is largely made up of his followers? If God can intervene on my behalf, he could certainly do so on theirs.
I understand that it’s faith, but even faith has to be derived from somewhere. I have faith that my husband will not cheat on me, because he has clearly and steadily demonstrated his love and devotion. So my question is, from where does faith in God derive? What do people who believe in God base it on? From my atheist eyes, it sure looks like it’s all based on “because a book, and passionate people, and the world at large has told us it’s true.”
Incidentally, the illogical nature of the idea of God is not what makes me an atheist. I simply know that there isn’t one. Just as I know (now) that there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, or Flying Spaghetti Monster, I know that there is no God. God is an artificial construct that has helped people throughout the ages get a firmer grasp on life. I don’t need that help; I’ve got a pretty firm grip on reality.
The other point I want to make, to no one in particular, is that so many religious people claim to be sad for me, because I do not know the awe and joy of embracing religion. But I am awed and inspired and joyed every day. I see a beautiful sunset, and am awed by all the science behind it - the gases and particles and light waves that all combine in a way that I find beautiful. I am inspired by beautiful architecture that somehow transcends its beginnings as just so much wood and concrete. I find joy in greeting my husband at the end of the day, or the way my puppy snuggles his head against me when he’s settling down for a nap. Atheism is not a cold and clinical outlook on life. To me, it’s simply appreciating everything around me without feeling the need to ascribe it to some divine being.
red awning, welcome to the Straight Dope! Isn’t Joseph Campbell wonderful? I save my most sincere welcomes for those who appreciate him!
Of course I have no certain answers about the soul. But I like to speculate that perhaps there is something – but maybe much different from the usual “heaven” we were told about as children. Something much better – perhaps serene, intense, and especially united.
See, couched in those terms (meaning your quote, TBC) I have absolutely no quarrel with people of Faith. In that vein allow me to relate a little anecdote to you.
When I moved here from the States a bit over five years ago I found myself traveling back in time, not just because this is a Third World nation, but because, religiously, it reminded me of the Franco’s Spain I happened to grow-up in. For as much as one could argue that the US is likely the most religious nation amongst all industrialized countries in the Western Hemisphere, 'tis nothing compared to the feel one gets in most LA nations. To me, the last real bastion of of the once all-powerful Catholic Church as it is rapidly losing its grip in Europe – even in such traditionally uber-Catholic countries such as Ireland, Portugal, Italy and those well-known spreaders of the Faith, my own ex-Imperial Spain. Quite the plunge really. But more to the point, I found myself for the first time in a looong time as a real social pariah, for even mentioning that one is a non-believer will get you the most evil-eyed looks you can imagine…along with a good dose of condescension, many times in the form of “I’ll pray for you so Jesus can come into your life etc. etc.” Heck I got this treatment even within my family, what with my late Mother being the sole exception being as she was, a highly skeptical person in said matters. Not trying to paint a victim picture here but rather telling it like it is. In fact thing have gotten way better since as I’ve learned, for the most part, to avoid the issue all together while at the same time having ironed-out my differences with my sis – irony of ironies thanks in no small part due to the fact that one her three kids (the youngest) has become quite the well-versed atheist himself. Of course depending on how one looks at it, I either get the credit or the blame for that particular occurrence. Me, I rather think the kid was smart enough to weigh both sides and come to his own conclusion – which is exactly what happened.
Anyway, if there’s a point to my account, it’s just this, and it goes to the very heart of the OP. I like to live and let live but – and there’s always a “but” right? – that includes my being able to answer honestly, if asked, what my beliefs are without being derided/condescended to for coming to a different conclusion than the overwhelming majority.
A “for instance” that happened to me just yesterday prior to posting to this thread: I was merrily walking along, minding my own business, when I was accosted by some wild-eyed, Bible-wielding nutter, who wanted to save me from Og knows what even though I twice politely told him “I wasn’t interested and was busy” (both true) he thought I was being “rude” and said as much in no uncertain and rather loud terms. Now, as I said above, I’m rather of the live and let live persuasion…but obviously my own life is included in that equation, thus I proceeded to give the man a bit of a clarification on the meaning of the word ‘rude.’ Judging from his reaction (walking away at a rather fast pace) by George, I think he got it too! In any event, perhaps that explains my own (overly?) aggressive attitude in this thread for as much as I rather shy away from religious discussions – just not that interested really – sometimes I do need to vent. And as you can imagine from what I wrote above that is rather a tough thing to do in my current environment.
Og, I must be a glutton for punishment, 'cause I know EXACTLY where these kinds of discussions go…
Who cares what I believe? What I believe makes absolutely no difference as to whether something exists or not. I can choose to believe big-eyed space aliens are attempting to breed with us, but they won’t be. I can choose not to believe in rabbits, but the rabbits aren’t going anywhere. What GOD? How egotistical; thinking that you can just conjure up an omnipotent, omniscient being by wishing for it.
Blasphemy is something I do to hurt peoples’ feelings. These religious types get on my nerves; since they’ve left such a nice, easy target in the form of their “sacred beliefs”, I’ll go ahead and shoot at it, being as they are obnoxious scum. The meanest are the Christians and Muslims. They have spent the entire existence of their cults, many centuries, proving that there is absolutely NOTHING they won’t do to push their “faith.” They should be grateful all I’m doing is hurting their feelings; they sure as hell don’t stop there when they dislike somebody.
What gives these assholes the right to invade my space, take my time, and demand that I pay them to harass me, or worse? If they’re genuinely nice, they’ll understand why I react the way I do, and not take it too hard when I say things like “Mohammed was a pigfucker,” or “Jesus licked dogshit from Mary’s cunt.” They’re just words. Words that are intended to offend and degrade the people who have, without provocation, taken it upon themselves to remove from this mortal coil anyone who thinks otherwise than they do. If they’re genuinely nice, they will realize that these things are not aimed at them; they are aimed at those who bomb womens’ health clinics, or fly airplanes into buildings, or vote to deprive ethnic groups of the right to live their lives unmolested. It’s just an unhappy circumstance that the nice people happened to be within earshot when I get riled at the jerks who share some of their fath systems. I no more believe my blasphemy than I believe in the Easter Bunny. When the day goes by, and everyone behaves civilly toward one another, which are most days, then I don’t say or do anything impolite; in fact, I much prefer to be kind to all around me, regardless of what color glasses they see the world through.
Fear of a deity doesn’t make me tender and loving; compassion does. Life has enough difficulties without deliberate cruelty on my part. But I am human, and I do get angry sometimes, particularly at those who are so arrogant they insult my intelligence, and possibly endanger my life, because their superstition says it’s OK.
And for all of you who have some cockeyed version of reality and still are decent and caring, my gentle apologies that you got snared up in my tiffs with the bad people out there.
I have to say I’m mighty impressed thus far at the straight dope. Not only do most of you appear to have brains but most of them appear to be working faster than yer bitch slap reaction.
and still are decent and caring, my gentle apologies that you got snared up in my tiffs with the bad people out there.