I have been reading alot of the heated debates in GD and have decided to pit religous arguments. I am not religous but have always been brought up to respect other peoples point of view however fucking ridiculous that may be. I just wonder why no one seems to be able to see the fundamental pointlessness of either:
A: trying to convince a hardline fundamentalist that what they have been brought up to believe is wrong.
or
B:trying to convince some heathen that if they don’t believe their particular myth that they are going to go to hell.
I mean really, who the fuck cares? If you believe that the brand of religion you have chosen is the right one then cool, sit back and laugh while the rest of us fry. Also if you believe that religion is a crock then sit back and ignore the fools and their bizarre supernatural beliefs. Surley the main thing is that the majority of people, religous or not, are pretty much normal decent people and we can all learn to get along? What gets right on my tits is the extremes on either side of the argument. Don’t any of the people having slanging matches in Great Debates realise that there is absolutley no point? Every single one of these debates seem to descend into the same old argument which must have gone round and round forever with a total amount of fuck all result. I say ‘live and let live’ and if that fails ‘shut the fuck up you boring monkey felching rectum reamer’.
Exactly. Why are any of us here? We like to argue, and we like to see our words in print. Actually accomplishing anything would be a nice bonus, of course, but hey, you can’t have everything.
Non-religious people strongly believe that religion has stifled scientific progress and that religion, a great big lie, should be removed from civilization for the sake of our future.
Religious poeple believe that those people who are not religious really are going to suffer a kind of hell after they die and that they should try to save them from this by trying to convert them.
I am not religious but I believe religion was useful in the past and that actually we might not have made it this far without it, some lies are useful. However I believe that we should have outgrown it by now, and that it has become counter-productive.
I enjoy farting in the bath and no one persons pit rant is gonna stop me from doing it…
It just seems to me that going over the same argument time and time again must get a bit tedious to even the biggest fan of arguing a cause to someone who has the exact opposite view. Why not argue about something else…religous debate is soooo fucking 1970’s man. I think that it takes the term ‘flogging a dead horse’ to new heights, this is more a case of ‘flogging a dead horse that been hauled off to the knackers yard, been turned into glue that has then been used to stick up a flyer for a band that broke up in the 80’s and was stuck to a wall that has now been bulldozed to make way for an attractive apartment complex aimed at high earning young proffesional’
Actually, religious, non-religious and atheistic individuals strongly believe that it’s irritating as hell to have someone paint an ignorant and incorrect picture of their beliefs. Christians find it irritating to be told by some fool that, since they’re Christian, they believe pagans and homosexuals will burn in eternal fire. Atheists find it irritating to be told by some ignorant fool that, since they’re atheists, they have no moral foundation.
Bah! It all boils down to the very definition of insanity, doing the same thing, time and again, and expecting different results.
Still, it’s fun, and kills the spare time.
Believe it or not, both sides debate because they care for the other person.
Many Atheists believe that religion is a big lie that stifles progress, and thus should be stomped out with reason.
Many Theists believe that what really counts is the place of the eternal soul, and thus they should do everything possible to enable others to enter into paradise.
(Pardon me if the above seem like strawmen, but y’all get my basic argument.)
I see it as a testament to humanity’s love for one another.
It is true that in such debates some points pop up over and over again and that you thus need to “defend” your position against this. It is boring, tiring and unproductive.
But since on a message board posts are made by many different members who not necessarily participated in other “religious debates” it is inevitable that prejudices, misconceptioins and the likes keep showing up.
What is productive on such debates is to discover where the other parties comes from, how their idea’s were formed, how their beliefs are formed and practiced.
And yes, atheists also believe in something since they believe in the non-existence of a deity to begin with.
It is also interesting to compare several systems (or ways of life) and most of the time you rather quickly discover the similarities.
By the way: The reasoning that atheists “have no moral” is that ridiculous that I don’t understand why people even come to this.
Just out of curiousity, this being the Straight Dope Message Board and all (you know, the website devoted to “Fighting Ignorance”), does your philosphy of “respecting other peoples point of view however fucking ridiculous that may be” extend to such things as a belief that crop circles are produced by alien visitors, that TV psychics such as John Edward can receive messages from the dead, that cancer can be cured through acupuncture and chiropractic “medicine,” that the world is being run by a vast Jewish conspiracy, or any other “ridiculous” idea that people might have?
If so, then why are you posting here in the first place if you don’t believe in the mission of fighting ignorance?
If not, then why do you feel that religious beliefs should receive special treatment?
Whoa there daddy-o!, I would happily argue my point with someone who believes in crop circles/John Edwards etc because I believe there is a good chance that they may be swayed by logic and also because its a fresher, more productive argument. Ok i’ll re-arrange my words ‘I believe people have the right to believe what they want, if I believe it to be wrong i’ll argue my point but at the same time I can’t be fucked to argue about religion because it has been proven time and time again to be futile.’ Happy? I was basically pointing out the amount of religous debates that crop up in GD that are effectivley the same argument over and over again…for gods sake where are all the people who believe that we descended from a superior race of lizard people? I crave that debate, instead its: ‘Evolution v’s Creationism - how do I refute this argument?’ the answer? Don’t fucking bother they are not going to listen. The notion that someone with an unshakeable belief in hardcore creationism/fundamentalism is suddenley going to see the error of their ways is as likely as a die hard atheist becoming a born again christian. To be fair this is a pretty lame rant, I was just bored with the amount of identical religous debates that seem to crop up.
The point of trying to convince a hardline fundamentalist that they are wrong is that we might succeed. I’ve seen a few deconversations now that wouldn’t have taken place had it not been for the web. I’ve seen people who had never in their life before had the opportunity to defend their faith, try and do so -only to be chewed up and spat out, their faith in tatters. I’m not saying this happens overnight - at the very least it takes months and is often extremely traumatic. But believe me it is worth it as they themselves are the first to admit.
It’s easy for us Londoners to delude ourselves that most religious people are nice, normal and decent. Try going to one of the many boards on the web dominated by bible-belt fundamentalists and witness the horrendous bigotry and hatred thereon. Or go to the atheist boards and hear stories of teenagers being afraid to ‘come out’ to their families as atheists, afraid even to *buy books about atheism from the local bookstore * in case word reaches their parents.
I could go on…but I won’t. At the end of the day, if you don’t like reading these arguments then don’t - nobody has to read what they don’t want to (unless you’re unlucky enough to be raised in a fundy home of course).
Hmmmm… I have the distinct feeling that you have not read the collected works of our own dear lekatt.
For the record, I don’t think anybody around here actually thinks they will change anybody’s beliefs about anything. People have a strange way of clinging to deeply held beliefs regardless of evidence to the contrary. No, we’re all just shouting at the bleachers, hoping that somebody whose mind isn’t irrevocably made up will read what we say and be enlightened.
Can’t say I bother reading many of the religious arguments here, but as for my real-life relationship with my Grandma, I don’t know where we’d be without 'em! (I win, so I enjoy them, she starts them, so I figure she does too. I love that woman. )
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