Religulous - Agnostic or Atheistic?

Cafe Society
1

Firstly, I’m pretty sure that ‘Atheistic’ isn’t really a word, but I didn’t know how else to say it.

I went to the local (Calgary, AB) premiere of this movie tonight and I walked out of it with mixed thoughts.

The editing was fairly ‘judicious’ in that it seemed to be cut to maximize how ridiculous some of the participants came across (not that it was probably difficult, some of the positions held by some of the participants are pretty funny). I’m not a film expert by any means, but I’m willing to bet that many people interviewed for this film are going to be crying foul, and saying that they were quoted out of context.

Bill Maher came across as mean and snide a lot of the time. I suppose I really should have expected that, I’ve seen a bit of his work before.

Most of the arguments were pretty sophmoric. Religious superstition is a faily easy target. I don’t mean to say that it alright to mock the faithful, because I don’t see anything wrong with faith. But some of the ceremonial stuff and the belief in things like the virgin birth I just don’t buy into myself.

I was entertained, and I laughed quite a bit, but looking back on it a lot of that was sort of nervous outbursts.

Towards the very end of the film, Mr. Maher made a statement that basically said he doesn’t buy into religion because he doesn’t think that religious people have any special insight that he doesn’t have. It came across as “If I can’t believe in this stuff because there’s something I don’t know, then neither should anyone else”.

Mr. Maher said numerous times in the film that “he doesn’t know”, which to me would imply that he’s agnostic. But the sarcastic superiority and the ridiculing of most aspects of Christianity, Judaism and Islam (as well as Mormonism and some guy who seems to worship dope) implies something more like atheism.

What I’m not getting is, if he’s an atheist, why not just say so? And if he’s truly agnostic, what’s with all the hostility?

For what it’s worth, I would describe myself as basically agnostic, with a belief in some sort of Universal Energy, karma, what have you. No specific deity.

This is only my second thread ever… please be gentle. I’m really hoping to get an honest discussion out of this and not have it just end up in the Pit. :slight_smile:

2

Fear ? For his career, or personally. Stephen Hawking, for example, at one point falsely implied he was religious in order to avoid offending his wife.

Religion is pushy, destructive, and really foolish. It has done plenty to earn hostility. Given all the harm it has caused and is causing, why NOT be hostile to it ?

3

I got an e-mail yesterday containing a free pass to a screening of this last night, but because I didn’t check my e-mail before I left work, I didn’t see the mail until after I got home from seeing another free movie. I quite liked the movie I saw, Appaloosa, which was damned good, but I’ve been waiting impatiently and with much anticipation for Religulous. :smack:

Ah well, it opens Friday and I’ll gladly pay full price to see it. I’m an atheist, so of course I’ll love it, but I’m especially looking forward to seeing him skewer $cientology. I heard about that segment and it sounds hilarious.

4

I haven’t seen the film so strictly speaking have nothing relevant to contribute to the discussion, but I did want to comment on one aspect of the OP. Apologies if this takes us in a GD-like direction, but as an atheist I’d like to think that I don’t treat believers with any less respect than I would anyone else.

Sarcastic superiority and the ridiculing of other peoples beliefs have, in my opinion, very little to do with being an atheist and a great deal to do with being a <word that I probably shouldn’t use outside the pit>.

5

Yeah, those folks who made fun of flat-earthers sure were <word that I probably shouldn’t use outside the pit>. What, that the earth was flat wasn’t a belief that deserved sarcastic superiority and ridicule?

Look, people used to be burned at the stake for being heretics. People to this day are killed and made to be 2nd class citizens based on a belief in a sky pixie. One silly little movie hwuwting the fweewings of the pious is not going to make up for that. If all Christians were actually, you know, Christ-like, I’d admire and respect them. I know some who are (humble, caring, compassionate for instance) and I admire and respect them. But too many use their religion to spread hate and discord. Jesus, if he actually had existed, would be a dirty, stinking liberal to those types of people. How dare they evoke his name in an effort to appear morally superior!

I have no problems with people who believe weird shit. Live and let live. But when they hurt other people and/or try to enact laws based on their belief they’ve crossed a line. And people are worried about Religulous poking some fun? Geez. (I love that title, by the way. I haven’t heard the title pronounced, but I read it as a cross between Religious and Incredulous).

Go Bill.

6

Maher has declared himself an apatheist instead of an agnostic on Scarborough Country on April 24, 2007.

7

The name of the movie is a combination of “religion” and “ridiculous,” which probably tells you all you need to know about where Maher is coming from. It sounds like he’s basically mocking superstition, as you observed, and institutionalized religion (a longstanding target) without taking any particular point of view on cosmological issues. He’s basically taking a skeptical tone toward religion. Maher’s a natural contrarian and devil’s advocate even by the standards of professional comedy, but being obnoxious or condescending doesn’t prove he’s an atheist rather than an agnostic.

8

You don’t see anything wrong with totally accepting a belief that has no evidence or support? Faith is a terrible quality to have because it leads to a generation of blind followers who don’t need any support or evidence, just someone telling them “X and Y and true, because I/the Bible/whatever said so.” Faith also takes away the naturally inquisitive nature of humans. Who is more likely to be burned in the long run – a skeptic or a gullible person?

But that’s just my opinion. I’m looking forward to seeing the movie (especially after that atrocious Expelled was allowed to projected onto movie screens).

9

The only thing that will make this film more enjoyable for me, I reckon, is if it is shown in a double bill with “The Life Of Brian”. ( Goes to check Ninjavideo.)

10

I got word that Bill was on The View this morning promoting the film, and when Token Dumb Blondie asked him if he’s ever tried speaking to God and he responded that she needs to be in Bellevue rather than on TV, she jumped out of her chair to physically attack him. I sure hope this ends up on youtube by the time I get home from work, or at least Talk Soup this weekend…

I rounded up a group of friends to go see it next Sunday…cant wait.

11

Sounds like a film worth watching. I’ve read a few Anti-theism books and now I have a film to look forward to.

12

Few if any atheists claim they know. Atheism is lack of belief in god or belief in no god, not the claim to know this. Lots of people won’t say they are atheists because of the view, like yours, that it necessitates making fun of religion or other such nasty stuff.

I won’t go any further - if you wish you can search for one of the hundreds of definition threads.

As for the movie, I read that “real” religionists refused to be interviewed, which might explain the prevalence of kooks.

13

It’s up on Youtube, but not quite the way it’s described here. Star Jones (I think that’s her) asks the question, and although she didn’t sound happy with the response, she was smiling when they cut back to her.

It’s near the end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCrPWWqNl1I

14

This is basically correct, but misleading. Philosophical atheism simply states that the case for the existence of any god or gods remains unproven, and lacking such proof the claims are without merit.

Agnosticism, rather, is the unwillingness to make a judgment on the issue. “I can’t tell if the case for the existence of any god or gods is any good or not, so I’m just going to stand on the fence.” Maher seems to fall more in this camp than the other.

Then there are the social issues/ills visited on humankind by various religions. This is a totally separate issue from atheism, and atheists can have a variety of opinions about this issue and still be atheists. This issue is what the movie seems to be about, and Maher clearly takes one side to a rather extreme degree. This is not incompatible with his claim to be something other than an atheist.
Roddy

15

Agreed. Religion has little to do with a god or its existence, therefore, criticizing religion has little to do with a god or its existence.

16

Right. Many a comedian has picked on organized religion (actually that’s practically a requirement of the job) without dismissing faith entirely.

17

Which is why Penn and Teller are better at this kind of thing than Maher could ever be. I’m no fan of most organized religions, but I’m even less a fan of the preening audacity that is Bill Maher.

18

Maher may be ambivalent about theism, but he’s undoubtedly anti-religious. On his show a week or so back, primarily concerned with the financial crisis, he tried to draw a connection between the credit meltdown and belief in angels: because stupidity is the direct cause of both.

As to the movie: I imagine atheists will go in micro-droves; fundamentalists will picket; and everyone else will find something else to do.

19

Though I hold and practice religious beliefs, I’m very curious to see a well-made movie like this and think that a lot of insight into the mixing of religion, lifestyle, and politics would make a hot documentary subject. However, all of the commercials that I’ve seen for Maher’s film make it look like Nuh-Uh: the Movie with him responding like a fucking five-year-old to religious people. The current commercial out there literally has nothing but cases of him responding “No, you!” or “What do YOU think?” like a petulant toddler instead of actually lampooning or skewering anything.

20

I won’t go and see it. But I will see it.