I lived several years in HK but only visited Shanghai. They’re worlds apart, IMO. HK is a slick, cosmopolitan city, and Shanghai looks like a slick, cosmopolitan city but has a lot of catching-up to do. My Hong Kong Chinese friend said, of Shanghai: “The hardware is good, but the software is bad”.
That said, I’d live in either in a heartbeat. Hong Kong is the best place I’ve ever lived, and Shanghai would be endlessly fascinating. Go for it!
[QUOTE=Sue Duhnym]
I didn’t want to tell you but we’re the first two horsemen. We don’t like each other so we travel separately. Repent, for the end is nigh-ish.
[/QUOTE]
Shit - I knew it. Who’s gonna show up next???
PS - HI SUE!!! I missed you!!!
[QUOTE=influenza]
My parents made this exact choice 16 years ago and moved to Hong Kong when I was 7. I lived there until I was 13, and lived mostly in Shatin and Discovery Bay.
You’re likely worried about your son changing schools in this situation, so here it is:
He’ll probably hate it for at least a year. After then, he’ll settle in to school and social life and get used to it. The social system for international students there is, in my opinion, the cornerstone of what teenage socialization should be like. Because people are so fluid - his friends will leave every year and he’ll make new ones every year - it is in my opinion excellent social practice and largely avoids the North American click-type phenomena.
Most likely, he’ll want to travel constantly when he gets older (I know very few kids who grew up abroad and don’t actively explore the world), and he’ll probably think that you getting him to live abroad, looking back on the experience, was a great choice.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info. Our daughter is adamantly against the move and frankly, I don’t blame her. She makes friends easily but the differences in school and stress really threw her for a loop (long, boring story). I don’t want to go through that again but at the same time, living abroad could be great for her too.
So, did you learn Chinese in your time there? And what are you up to now, like normal 23 year old stuff? Or have you become an international arms dealer?
ETA: Thanks for the perspective from your parents too!
[QUOTE=buns3000]
You will find the sky is a big brown haze every day from the pollution. The day I arrived in Shanghai and looked up and saw the giant brown cloud, I thought something must’ve happened that day. I soon realised that is just always there! It is really ugly and quite depressing.
[/QUOTE]
I grew up in Detroit. You don’t know ugly and depressing. 
Man, I wish I’d had international-travelling parents and grew up multilingual in a globe-trotting environment.
China Guy Thanks for the more detailed info. I will likely take you up on your offer for more when I get back from my Thanksgiving trip.
Happy Thanksgiving!
I only lived in Hong Kong for 6 months, but I really enjoyed it. The two downsides I saw were (1) a decent-sized flat is going to be very expensive, and (2) the climate is honest-to-God tropical, with brutal heat and humidity in the summer. If I lived there (which I may do again some day), I would leave during the summers (a perk of being an academic). But places like Discovery Bay have a huge expat community, lots of stuff for kids to do, etc. And it’s very convenient to travel to other places in SE Asia.
I lived in Yung Shue Wan on Lamma Island, where there are decent-sized flats at low rents. There is the little issue of having to take a half-hour ferry to get anywhere, but it’s a great environment - no cars, lovely hills to walk in, jungles, picturesque bays, beaches of varying quality, some cute little bars, good restaurants. A bit like Disco Bay but less anonymous, more pleasant, and much less commercial (and a little bit hippyish if I’m totally honest).
Sue, refresh my memory - didn’t you live in San Jose before you moved to New York? If so, then I do remember you - welcome back to SJ and the boards. My previous username was pugluvr.
There is NO WAY that Kiddo is NINE. Unpossible!
Hi Sue . 
Hong Kong, choose Hong Kong. The only catch is the insane rent you’ll have to pay. If it’s part of the employment deal or your husband makes a considerable income I can’t even begin to tell you how much happier you’ll be there instead.
(rewrite follows)
[QUOTE=Sue Duhnym]
I didn’t want to tell you but we’re the first two horsemen. We don’t like each other so we travel separately. Repent, for the end is nigh-ish.
[/QUOTE]
Speak of the devil! 
Hi, Sue! Welcome back!
Lived in shanghai very recently for nearly a year. It’s beautiful there (the skyscrapers are way better than my home town, nyc). Everything is brand new, clean (except the sky), and damn cheap (<<$1000/month for a great appartment, though depends on the age of the neighborhood. $5 for a full restaurant meal, $10 for something extravagant. $2/hr for a cleaning lady. etc.). People don’t speak much english there (not like in, say, europe) but pointing is a universal language 
(and you can haggle with a calculator) There’s also a fair amount of foreigners (again, depending on neighborhood). All you have to do to be surrounded by white people is go to an upscale bar. There were also lots of ads for schools for white kids, but having emmigrated to a different country at the age of 9 myself, let me tell you that things like learning a new language goes over fairly smooth. A guy I worked with there lived for 4 years without learning much chinese. I thought he was a schmuck, but it’s totally doable.
And remember, China is really the only country left that still likes Americans.
[QUOTE=China Guy]
I live in the old french concession area, with tree lined streets (near the Paulaner Brauhaus) and walk 20 minutes to work. I like the city, I like the people (very different from Beijing). The Carrefour Hypermarkets have a pretty good selection of western food at reasonable prices. We try to get out of town every month or two. Hangzhou, Suzhou and the river towns are interesting once or twice. To get clean air, you’ve got to drive 4-5 hours.
[/QUOTE]
The wife and I have enjoyed strolling through the old French Concession. It’s a truly beautiful and interesting area to explore. But I have to say that it was the only part of Shanghai where we were not virtually mobbed by touts. They’re much more aggressive in Shanghai than in Beijing, which is one reason I tend to prefer Beijing myself; you can walk around in relative peace. How do you deal with the touts? No doubt they’re limited to the tourist areas like the Bund, but I’m not kidding, we’d taken no more than a few steps out of the French Concession when they were all over us again.
[QUOTE=Alex_Dubinsky]
And remember, China is really the only country left that still likes Americans.
[/QUOTE]
They like us JUST fine in Thailand. I’ve even actually been thanked for Iraq and Afghanistan.
I rarely see touts. they are in the tourist areas predominantly. also I tell them in chinese i’m not interested, then to fuck off if they persist. really a non issue.
[QUOTE=China Guy]
I rarely see touts. they are in the tourist areas predominantly. also I tell them in chinese i’m not interested, then to fuck off if they persist. really a non issue.
[/QUOTE]
I see. We wondered about that while we were there. I guess telling them in Chinese would let them know you are not a tourist. But we got socked even in non-tourist areas. Beijing seemed much more laid back. Even in Hong Kong we’d not encountered that level.
[QUOTE=Sue Duhnym]
Thanks for the info. Our daughter is adamantly against the move and frankly, I don’t blame her. She makes friends easily but the differences in school and stress really threw her for a loop (long, boring story). I don’t want to go through that again but at the same time, living abroad could be great for her too.
So, did you learn Chinese in your time there? And what are you up to now, like normal 23 year old stuff? Or have you become an international arms dealer?
ETA: Thanks for the perspective from your parents too!
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I threw the good old hissy fit too when I was told I had to leave Canada. In the end, my mom took me to Disneyland as a trade off for the 5 days before we left.
I learned relatively-ok Cantonese while I lived there, but a few years of living in Texas and never getting chance to speak dumbed that down a lot. Still, it’s fun to be able to vaguely understand what the Hong Kongers in Vancouver are talking about, and it freaks them right out when they suddenly realize that gwailo they’ve been talking about understood the whole thing…
Nowadays I’m finishing an honours degree in business administration (with a focus on leadership/group dynamics, organizational learning and change management) at a university in Vancouver. I am definitely addicted to traveling, like I mentioned before. I just got home from a year abroad, with 5 months of studying in Bangkok and traveling the region followed by 8 months of studying in Italy and traveling Eastern Europe. While I’m probably on the extreme end of People-I-Know-Who-Travel, I also can’t think of anyone I grew up with in Hong Kong who hasn’t traveled extensively.
I think that moving to HK was definitely hard on me, but it was probably the single best choice my parents ever made in terms of what it did for me. As such, I’m a little biased. 
[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
The wife and I have enjoyed strolling through the old French Concession. It’s a truly beautiful and interesting area to explore. But I have to say that it was the only part of Shanghai where we were not virtually mobbed by touts. They’re much more aggressive in Shanghai than in Beijing, which is one reason I tend to prefer Beijing myself; you can walk around in relative peace. How do you deal with the touts? No doubt they’re limited to the tourist areas like the Bund, but I’m not kidding, we’d taken no more than a few steps out of the French Concession when they were all over us again.
[/QUOTE]
They really attacked me also, but mostly just in Nanjing Road (you know - that giant mall that runs from The Bund to People’s Square).