My husband has been offered a great job in China but it requires a move to Shanghai*. Admittedly, my first reaction was, “Oh, HELL no!” but I’ve decided to keep an open mind and at least visit to see what I’d be in for. (Lest you think I’m a harpy denying my husband great career opportunities, I have moved five times for my husband and his career, never living in one place for longer than three years. We’ve only been here in San Jose for 1.75 years. I’m sick of moving and this would be no small move.)
Anyway, I know we have some China Dopers and I’d like some perspective. We’re planing a short trip in December but I have no idea what Shanghai (or China) is like apart from the stuff I read in the newspaper. That mostly amounts to pollution, corruption and toxic toys. What’s it like to be an ex-Pat in China?
I don’t know if it matters but I’m 37, Mr Duhnym is 41 and the Kiddo is almost nine. We have a cat and a fish.
Thanks in advance for any info.
*Shanghai is the most likely city but it’s wouldn’t be a deal-breaker if I hated it and preferred to live in Hong Kong.
I may appear calm but I’m screaming on the inside.
i’ve lived in both hk and shanghai. i’m betting you would love hk with a decent package. shanghai would be tougher if you don’t speak chinese. shanghai is the only major chinese city I would live in by choice.
they are big cities with a lot of people.
check em out. downside to the restaurants and shopping is that there isn’t so much kid friendly stuff. but i’m sure the kid will be in international school and theres a whole life and support network around that.
If you actually want to pay a good price on things you buy, you better polish up your cantonese so you can haggle. It is customary to do so unless you are in some high end place.
I haven’t been to Shanghai but I have been to Hong Kong. It’s a pretty nice place if you have the money. Shopping is top notch. If you like nature, you need to be prepared to get out of the city because it is quite developed and with a lot of people. Quite a lot of people speak English in Hong Kong so the language barrier shouldn’t be too bad. If you like Chinese movies, then Hong Kong would be your mecca because that is practically where they are all made and you can see movie stars on the street.
Unless you have friends and family where you are right now, I say go for it and move to Hong Kong. Just make sure you get a high level apartment so you have a great view.
Shanghai is a sweet city. There are a ton of expats there, and it’s pretty western friendly. If you like living in a city, you will like living in Shanghai. Your money will go much further in Shanghai that it will in any comparable city in Europe or America, so that’s a bonus. The only thing I would be concerned about is your kid. There are many westerners in Shanghai, but I’m not sure how many families there are.
Issues with fulltime maid/cooks? Do they have to live with me? Do they come with the apartment or something? Welcome to Shanghai, here is your key and your maid?
We lived in NYC for three years, including the Kiddo, so I’m not afraid of big cities, but I don’t speak Chinese so that does worry me.
Why would you choose Shanghai over all other major Chinese cities?
My parents made this exact choice 16 years ago and moved to Hong Kong when I was 7. I lived there until I was 13, and lived mostly in Shatin and Discovery Bay.
You’re likely worried about your son changing schools in this situation, so here it is:
He’ll probably hate it for at least a year. After then, he’ll settle in to school and social life and get used to it. The social system for international students there is, in my opinion, the cornerstone of what teenage socialization should be like. Because people are so fluid - his friends will leave every year and he’ll make new ones every year - it is in my opinion excellent social practice and largely avoids the North American click-type phenomena.
Most likely, he’ll want to travel constantly when he gets older (I know very few kids who grew up abroad and don’t actively explore the world), and he’ll probably think that you getting him to live abroad, looking back on the experience, was a great choice.
Sorry for the double post, but I just asked my parents their opinions:
Both of them said it was fascinating. My mom said she is still tempted to move back, and my dad said while he wouldn’t do it again (he just moved to London), it was an incredible experience.
I’ve not been to HK but spent about 7 days in Shanghai on a holiday a year ago. I totally loved Shanghai. As treis said, there are many European ex-pats there. The city has a western look to it, for the most part. There is a real food culture there, too. I ate some incredible food there every day. It occurred to me while there that I could very happily live in Shanghai. If I were all cashed up and moving there, I’d head for the French Concession area which is very beautiful and features heaps of great restaurants as well as at least a couple of British-themed pubs and one or two other western-style sports bars, that kind of thing…
You will find the sky is a big brown haze every day from the pollution. The day I arrived in Shanghai and looked up and saw the giant brown cloud, I thought something must’ve happened that day. I soon realised that is just always there! It is really ugly and quite depressing.
The subway is easy to navigate and it is really reliable and cheap. Clean also. Cab drivers are plentiful and cheap. The drivers aren’t trying to rip you off.
There are a couple of very beautiful cities quite close to Shanghai - Hangzhou and Suzhou. They would make great holiday locations if you lived in Shanghai. Check 'em out.
Well, people will look down on you if you don’t have a maid/cook in either HK or Shanghai. They don’t have to be live in, but that’s an option if you want it. Seriously, labor is cheap and most expats have at least one full time/live in person to help out. Hubby will probably have a car and driver as part of his package, and one duty of the driver is to help on the shopping expeditions.
HK is definately easier if you don’t speak Chinese. Check em both out.
My wife is Shanghaiese for one thing. So, we’ve got tons of relatives and my wife knows this place. Really helps for our life as we are pretty local. But your choices in China for international cities are pretty much Beijing (you think pollution, traffic and crowding are bad in Shanghai, Beijing takes the cake), Guangzhou (unplanned capitalism run wild for 20+ years, and the pollution is off the charts) or Shanghai (most international and cosmopolitan of the Chinese cities. Pollution is bad but Beijing and guangzhou make the sky seem blue by comparison.
I’ve lived in Taipei, HK, Tokyo and Shanghai. Shanghai is the city I’m settled in. Hard to explain why exactly in addition to my wife. I live in the old french concession area, with tree lined streets (near the Paulaner Brauhaus) and walk 20 minutes to work. I like the city, I like the people (very different from Beijing). The Carrefour Hypermarkets have a pretty good selection of western food at reasonable prices. We try to get out of town every month or two. Hangzhou, Suzhou and the river towns are interesting once or twice. To get clean air, you’ve got to drive 4-5 hours.
You might find shanghai a hardship posting but not an onerous one. the only challenge is not speaking Chinese. You’ll probably live in the burbs near an international school, and do the whole expat thing.
for a 10 year old, HK might be a lot more fun. There’s lots of hiking, beaches are close (no waves and can be horribly polluted depending on time of year), some people sail, junk trips are common, it’s easy to fly to other places for vacations/long weekends. Kids can take public transportation pretty easily. You can find almost everything grocery wise at Olivers, City Super or seibu.
Y’know, cause you’re witty and cool and stuff.