Why are the Chinese so different?

Why are the Chinese so different?

I’m not saying anything negative here. It’s not a pitting at all.

It’s just that it’s always been a much harder “click” as an American with the Chinese than with anyone else.

And, I’m not saying that from an ignorant point of view, but rather the opposite. I lived with 3 different Chinese people in a small apartment over the course of 3 years. I’ve shared an office with a Chinese guy for over 3 years. I was in grad school for 6 years in mathematical fields with LOADS of Chinese.

And, it just seems like they’re from a different planet. Through school, and living near a university, I’ve known Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, INdian people. And of course, tons of European and Latin American, South American folks. Even plenty of Arabic people, Egyptian and Lebanese most notably. I was even pretty good friends with 2 guys from Mali for a spell. Except for individual differences, I’ve always been able to find common ground with a lot of these folks. At least they’re people that I’m comfortable having a beer with, making a joke with, putting my feet up with.

If I’m invited to their house or they to mine, we’ll find something to have a chat about. I’m at least somewhat relaxed.

Man, with the Chinese, it feels like they’re from a different planet. I’ve heard some of the weirdest misunderstandings from them, seen some of the strangest behavior.

For instance, a roommate of mine showed me a picture of his baby with it’s penis stuck out through the clothing.

And I’ve asked other Chinese about that, and some say “that’s crazy, never heard of it” while others have said that’s not uncommon. Some chinese living here send their babies back to China, and others have said “that’s crazy.”

Two of my roommates just didn’t seem to “get” stuff. I lived with 2 guys that had Ph.Ds. But, they’d do things like flush trash down the toilet, leave soda in the freezer, put an iron on the carpet, put hot pans on the linoleum floor in the kitchen (I could actually go on for pages with things like that).
This also doesn’t seem to apply to Chinese I’ve known from Taiwan.

So, what’s the deal with China? Do other Asian countries have differences with them? Is it because China was closed off for so long. Are a good deal of the Chinese that come here from remote, non-modern villages?

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t dislike the Chinese. Generally, I’ve always got on well with the ones I’ve known, on a cordial level. Just never on a personal level. I learned quite a bit from living with some Chinese guys, especially some recipes. I just never figured out why they were so different.

Different from who? There’s like 2 billion of them. EVERYONE ELSE is different from their perspective.

My brother lived and worked with the Chinese in Boulder for years. The couple he stayed with DID send their children back to China to get the culture imprinted on them.

His one roommate would play cards all night, get all jacked up on whiskey, and watch videos of his father’s funeral.

There are many cutures who seem equally “strange” to us. That’s the nature of the beast.

I can sympathize with the OP… but I’ve had few contacts with mainland Chinese… but that Asians in general and Chinese in particular seem more “different” than westerners seems true.

I’m still a little puzzled by the question… but, as someone who has lived in China, a couple things jump to mind.

First, the baby thing. Was the kid’s doo-dad sticking out from his fly? Or was he wearing something like crotchless pajama pants? Diapers are not common in China, so kids wear these pants that allow them to pee whereever they are by just squatting and going. These kind of pants are basically the norm.

I have no idea about the toilets, irons, and other complaints. Are you sure they just weren’t spazzes? I hear mathematics and hard sciences sometimes attract absent-minded people. :slight_smile:

I will say, the one thing that totally threw me off when I lived in China was the concept of a good time: re nao, literally, “hot and noisy,” was just weird. Imagine going to a symphony concert and spending the whole time talking loudly, joking around, cracking peanuts, slapping people on the back, and engaging in general barroom behavior. The type of behavior that drives Americans out of certain movie theaters is pretty much common outside of the, uh, “civilized” cities of China.

They’re certainly not new, either – I know young kids in medieval Japan wore clothes that were nothing more than a sheet with holes for the head and arms. Everything below the waist was exposed, to make it easier to tend to business.

That’s because we already have restaurants, family dinners, and dim sum for that sort of stuff. :wink: IME, “quiet Chinese restaurant” is an oxymoron.

Without meaning to be in any way bigoted here, I’ve noticed the same thing. Most people from other cultures, even Asians, tend to assimilate pretty well into American “culture” if they’re surrounded by it (i.e. not living and working in an ethnically isolated neighborhood.) There are all of the usual cross-cultural misunderstandings, especially language, but I’ve known Koreans, Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Thais, Vietnamese, and dated a Japanese girl, and they all seemed to grasp the basic cultural nuances as well as could be expected; probably far better than I would if I were submerged in their native countries. But a lot (not all) of Chinese seem to lack whatever basics are needed to bridge the gap of experience. It’s not a language problem–I’ve know Chinese that spoke quite fluently and still had problems with basic manners and acceptible behavior, not to mention common sense (like driving, repeatedly, the wrong way down a one way street, or parking in front of a driveway).

Here’s my ignorant speculation, for what it’s worth:

Unlike most other Asian countries, China is developmentally backward. Although it is technically industrialized, the fact is that a lot of the population has grown up in rural areas, and even those that don’t may have grown up in a Third World-esque housing project where indoor plumbing was uncommon and personal choice in clothing, education, reading material, et cetera was limited, even by the standards of a Communist dictatorship. I don’t mean to be insulting or trivalize the situation with the following reference, but…think of “The Beverly Hillbillies” or the Ma & Pa Kettle movies. The humor came out of the complete difference between the what the Clampett’s considered normal (the “concrete pond”, keeping lifestock in the yard, et cetera) and what their neighbors thougth of as appropriate (polo games, water fountains, gourmet food, and so forth.)

People from other Asian nations, such as Japan or Malaysia, not only have had more media exposure to the rest of the world but also have grown up adapting to technology and industry. In Japan, for instance, although expensive it is not unusual to own a car, and you’ve almost certainly ridden in one at some point. In China, unless you were of the more fortunate, um, class (yeah, I know…they don’t have “classes” :rolleyes: ) then you may never have ridden in one. The stereotype of the bad Chinese driver–however justified or not as it may be–could be understood from the fact that most Chinese didn’t spend their childhoods observing their parents and other adults operating a car and therefore are far more intimidated by automobiles and driving on public roads.

Also, consider that from most Asian nations, including poor and overpopulated ones like India, the people who have come over–most of them, at least in my personal experience, being students–are the more adventurous and probably more exposed and encouraged by family, not to mention wealthier (or at least aspiring to greater financial opportunities) than average. The Chinese students that come over here are largely here at the expense of their government, and because of the educational opportunities that they don’t have at home. Many (in my personal, limited experience YMMV) seem to have a greater prejudice than usual against other people and especially Asians, including other cultures that fall within the geographical borders of modern China, so they tend to be more isolationist from the start.

And then, for what this is worth, is the historical xenophobia (and, as of the 19th century, technophobia) of the Chinese. By any reasonable viewing of history, the Industrial Revolution should have occured in China by at least a century prior to when it started in Europe. We’d expect the Chinese to have had a lock on the South Pacific before the Spanish, Portuguese, British, and French to have made their way around The Horn or the tip of South America. Instead, they became isolationist and distrustful of both foriegn trade and technical innovation. The same could be considered true, to some extent, of the Japanese, but they’ve come to adopt wholeheartedly (and perhaps somewhat precipitately), and in many cases improve upon, both the technologies and at least superficial attitudes and interests of the West. Post-WWII, they seemed to determined to become the major economic force on the Pacific Rim and in America, part of which was becoming culturally acceptible. The Chinese, on the other hand, had the Cultural Revolution, which set them back untold decades in science and industry, and made them more culturally isolated.

This is just my guess, but a lot of what seems like odd, irregular, or nonsensical behavior is just the challenges of trying to cope not only with the difference in culture and language but technology and media “connectedness” as well, and from what I’ve read the same issues are being felt between industrialized Hong Kong and mainland China, and to a lesser extent, between the growing urban Chinese population and the traditional rural/agricultural people. Greater industrialization combined with the more experienced and adventurous emigrees from other Asian nations is probably the biggest factor. If there were a significant number of, say, Congolese emegrating into the US you’d probably see something similar.

Stranger

hhmm… quite good speculation…

If its only an issue of adapting to more technology, cars and cities… then in a decade or so we should see Chinese who have grown up more “modern”. Still I think there are some strong cultural reasons for the “differences” pointed out…

Xenophobia… how bad is it with the Chinese ? Repeatedly during history they seem to have closed themselves.

India, for me, was as exotic as I could imagine anything being. I was swept away by sultans palaces and dim smoky temples and ancient caves. They waggle their head to say yes or no, they wear giant mirriored veils and the men wear pink flowered skirts, they walk around the train station carrying flower-strewn tridents, they hang around on elephants and camels for gods sake.

Anyway, I was hanging out in Delhi with an Indian friend, when I brought up the concept of the “foo dogs” that are sometimes found in Chinese doorways.

"Chinese people!’ he said “They are so wierd. Sometimes I wonder if the are even human.”

I nearly spit out chai.

Anyway, I don’t think Chinese people are all that strange, but apparently “Chinese people are strange” is a worldwide trope.

This seems like perfectly normal behavior to me. Does that make me weird? Or does it just mean I’m a closet Chinese person?

:dubious:

You must have missed all the business news articles about the booming auto market in China – it’s scorching hot right now, to the point where some analyists are expecting a “bubble burst” in car dealerships and sales outlets in the near future. Car prices are dropping like mad in China right now. And even if you can’t afford a car, unless you’re living in a part of China so rural as to not have paved roads, you can still get easy access to motorcycles and automobiles. There’s a big “underground economy” in taxi services, where you call up a driver, arrange a pick-up time, and get driven to where you want to go.

Actually, I’d blame it on lax standards in drivers’ license examinations, lax enforcement of traffic laws, and slapdash road construction/markings.

I dunno, I don’t see it as much different that what you can find in the west. Ask a typical American about their views of Islam and Muslims, for instance – the depth of ignorance is astonishing.

As for the general notion that a large portion of the Chinese populace don’t have any awareness of the rest of the world, have you overlooked the ubiquiousness of radio and (especially) television in China? Even people too poor to afford a vehicle can scrounge up a cheap-ass TV and VCD player, both for personal entertainment and for following what’s out in the rest of the world.

Yes, but this is all new. The reason it’s “scorching” right now is because China has been a vast, untapped market. There is nothing China is lacking–save for resources–that has kept it out of becoming a developed nation. Certainly they aren’t lacking in raw talent or intellect, as can be seen by the profusion of dedicated graduate students flowing through American universities. But until the arrest of the Gang of Four in 1976[75?] the country was being educationally and industrially impoverished by a bunch of ideological thugs, and it has been playing catchup ever sense.

But (and this is just a stereotype, which may or may not be valid) Chinese have a reputation for being less capable drivers. On the other hand, the few Indian drivers I’ve known have been rather circumspect about obeying traffic regulations. I don’t know if that’s significant (small sample size) but driving is something that we start learning about from an early age, and that most people take for granted. If you don’t often drive and never learned or significantly exposed until you were in your twenties it would explain that difficulty.

I can’t argue with you there, at all. But (and again, this is just in my personal experience, and what has been related to me by other Asians I’ve known) Asians in general and Chinese in particular can be very prejudiced toward Asians of other cultures. That seems pecular to to Europeans who tend to think of Asians as all being almond-eyed northern Chinese and lump everyone who is “Asian” in that category, but the peoples of Asia are a culturally, linguistically, and phenotypically diverse group, perhaps moreso than the peoples of Europe. If the Krauts can hate the Frogs, and the Turks can hate the Greeks, and everybody can hate the Italians, then it isn’t too surprising that the Japanese revile the Koreans and the Chinese want to crush the Tibetians. (Actually, some of these national boundries were erected by the French and British–most notibly India and Pakistan–and don’t represent any kind of historical ethnic divisions.)

But this is all speaking traditionally. Even if, say, the Japanese think of themselves as being superior to all other “races” they have been forced by economics to trade with them…and in doing so, have tended to assimilate and be assimilated. Mainland China has largely been out of this loop until the last 30 years, and so many of the people who grew up during or shortly after the Cultural Revolution may maintain a kind of cultural isolationism. I would expect this to disappear with succeeding generations and the economic incentives to maintain open trade with other nations.

Agreed, but again, this has all taken place over the last twenty-odd years, and as far as media culture, the Pacific Rim has it’s own tastes though they are slowly adapting to American/European cinema and more rapidly vice versa. Again, China has been on the rear echelon of this movement because of the imposed backwardness and only in the last few years has started to leap forward as an economic superpower with (more) open doors for cultural and informational exchange.

I’m not trying to say that China is inherently xenophobic or such (though they’ve had a long-standing, if not constant, history of insularism) but that political events, mostly internal, have retarded their industrial development, and hence the sort of social integration and cultural cross-fertilization that most of the rest of the world takes for granted. It is (and I speak from second-hand experience) much easier for a Japanese girl to come to the US, having at least a general knowledge of what is expected in terms of custom, manners, et cetera, than someone who has had almost no exposure to the Western world. Again, I expect over the next twenty or so years that mainland China will become every bit as modern as Hong Kong or Australia or the United States, with all the good and bad that that entails, and that students coming and emigrees coming from there then (and perhaps, going to the other way as well???) will be more conversant with the expectations of the respective cultures.

Just my $0.02. Like I said, I’m no expert in cultural relations, and have had a fair but still limited contact with people (mostly students or engineers) from all parts of Asia.

Stranger

That’s all very nice but his point is still solid. Chinese vehicle ownership is 20/1000, global average is 120/1000.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-05/11/content_329631.htm

In the US it’s something 2-3/ household. It’s a lucky thing for everyone that China IS a “bicycle kingdom”, if they were car heaven like North America we’d have all suffocated to death by now.

Its probably the traditional culture. Of course, upbringing plays a part, but I think the the *weirdness * factor comes from a lot of the beliefs and superstitions that Chinese have.

Funny, I felt really at home in Beijing. In Japan I always felt like people looked at me as though I had just farted. The most “foreign” place for me is the American South.

Four years ago I was working in a shop fabricating laser optics. My co. had a group of chinese natianals in house for several months. The girl that I was host to was very, very pleasant and besides the language barrier, all went well. I spent all day every day with her exept for lunch when the whole group would go to the local chinese place for a meal. I was able to connect on a personal level just enough to learn that at home she had no car but rode a bicycle, loves american rock and roll, just hangs out with friends for fun and is very focused of education. I did ask her by putting my thumb and forfinger together and motion as if I was toking on a doobie if she smokes weed, and she was emberassed and shook her head . I also learned that she had no boyfriend or husband and asked her if I could be her American boyfriend by pointing at myself then her and making a hugging motion, she gave me the hug and we spent day after day trying to talk to each other about orientating and slicing various man made crystals into waffers. she had a digital translator,camera and a lot of patience. even the guy who spoke the most english was having a hard time with us down here in florida. everyone took photos with there host and weeks later I got one of her and I in the saw room. very, very good memories.

Sheesh, I don’t know where even to start. First, I’m guessing that the OP is referring to first generation Chinese from Mainland China in the US. That the OP is not referring to genetic/ethnic Chinese.

China ain’t Kansas, so it’s a little wierd to not expect differences. Might start with it’s a country of 1.4 billion people - so they don’t tend to wait politely in line, say excuse me if bump into someone gently or sit back and wait their turn. China had about 100 years of continuous warfare before 1949, and then the whole nasty communist thing topped off with the cultural revolution, and then their entire world has been turned upside down as the socialist iron rice bowl has largely been replaced by the not neccessarily kind invisible hand of capitalism. Children get weeded out in the educational system with junior high school, high school and college entrance exams.

Those grad students you talk about might be from a modern city like Shanghai, or might be straight out of the deep countryside and a 2 waterbuffalo village.

As for driving. In China, and in much of Asia, roadways are controlled anarchy. Where there is a traffic cop, drivers tend to obey the laws. No cop, then a free for all. Concepts of staying in your own lane, politely waiting to merge, etc are generally not followed. The unwritten rule of the road is that the car in front can do whatever they want, and it’s up to the one’s behind to compensate.

Go to America and suddenly it’s like paradise. You’re the only aggressive driver and the system looks like a giant silver platter filled with goodies just waiting for you to take advantage of it. all these other americans are like sheep sitting back patiently waiting their turn. I drive in Shanghai, and have for about 5 years. Every time I go back to the US I have to be extra careful to not follow my Chinese driving habits. I’ve never had an accident or ticket, but man I was a horrible driver the last time I was in LA. [China is the number two global market for VW and Audi, produces significant revenue for GM, Honda, BMW.]

as for the baby thing, the kid had slit pants on instead of a diaper. Chinese generally aren’t as hung up about nudity (especially for babies) as many Americans. BTW, the use of diapers has really taken off in the Chinese cities.

Oh, so it’s your fault. :smiley:

Although I’d rather that infants have their effluent contained, in general the lack of outrage about nudity is something I wish Americans would learn from Asia…and Europe, and everywhere else that doesn’t regard the sight of a bared breast or even genitlia to be a life-altering perversion. I mean, clothes are fine–they keep you warm and dry, and can be used to express your personality, I guess–but every time I read about someone getting upset about a mother breastfeeding an infant in public it makes me wonder just how divine the complainant things he or she is, anyway.

Good Org, next thing they’ll be banning exposed mucus membranes. Plug those noses, please!

China Guy, how long have you lived (or were you born and raised) in China? How much change have you seen over that time, in terms of industrialization and urbanization? I’ve read a bit on the changes that have occured over the last fifteen years, but I’m curious if that matches up to a first-hand opinion.

Stranger

Stranger

That is how stereotypes work. If you get it in your head that Chinese are weird, then you will note everytime they do something you consider weird, while ignore all the times they do things normally.

Second and Third Generation Chinese-Americans that are here to stay, don’t seem any different to me than anyone else.

If your talking about grad students who plan to go back to the home country, of course they would be different. They come from a foreign culture, and all that entails. In addition to the cultural differences, they grew up in a country in the midst of rapid industrialization.

They come from a communist society where some of them would be quizzed from Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book, and had to get right lest they be accused of being a counter-revolutionary. All the other craziness associated with the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward.

They are probably the only child, and were probably spoiled badly. They grew up in a world were everyone of their friends is an only child. If they are very young, they might not have any aunts or uncles. They will never be aunts or uncles.

So to wonder why they would be different than say your average Canadian or Korean immigrant is being a little disingenuous.

Just want to add one more thought…

Given the language/culture barrier, what do you think that Xiu Ping got from her experiance of the U.S.A. other than “why are americans so different”.

And I may be incorrect but, I am pretty sure that chinese folks names are bass -akwards, meaning that Xiu Ping would be the U.S. version of Smith Bob.