Repair or Replace/Junk My Car - Decisions, Decisions, Decisions

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well, got the car to the mechanic. Turns out the suspension problems were worse than I thought/knew. Basically, needs new shocks, struts, and suspension work forward and back. Estimate is around $1800 for getting the repairs done including both parts and labor. I will be meeting with the mechanic on Thursday afternoon for a thorough examination of the vehicle, explanation of what’s wrong, and discussion of what is to be done when, and how payment will be made if I decide to go with this shop.

I’ve done some research and the price for all repairs seems normal for the work and my area.

I am now contemplating whether it’s worth repairing this 2002 Toyota Echo with 134,000 miles on it. Given that finding a reliable replacement car in my area (again, after some research and consulting local people) starts at around $4,000-5,000 and goes up from there I am leaning towards “fix” because “replace” will cost significantly more. Actually, if I let it go I won’t be replacing it, I’ll be down to just my pickup (Ford Ranger), which is even older than the car and will also require on-going maintenance. I like having two vehicles because if one is in the shop (such as now) I still have a means to get to work and so forth without having to make “panic repairs”, drive a defective vehicle, or worse yet have to wait for parts to come in and not have a car for an extended period of time (which, needless to say, would really screw with my employment).

In many ways what I’m seeking is validation of the decision to repair the car. The main problem here are moving parts that have worn out after two decades, not things like the engine. The repairs are nearly equal to the “Blue Book” value, but I’m not considering this as a trade-in and I’m sure as hell not going to sell a defective car to some unsuspecting stranger. The value in many ways is not a dollar amount, it’s an ability to get around, it’s transportation. It would cost more to replace the car than repair it, and with my other vehicle being elderly there is a value to having a second vehicle even if there’s also some hassle with having two.

Paying for this is not an issue if I decide to proceed. I am considering financing options, but I could withdraw that amount from my savings and still have a substantial rainy day fund left, I just don’t like digging into my savings like that without some thought and consideration.

If I do decide to keep it there will be some additional, minor things like replacing the headlights and windshield wipers, but I can do those myself. I can’t replace the suspension system on my own, I need a pro for that.

The final decision is mine, but I’m looking for other opinions to inform that decision.

2

It’s just my opinion, but the car sounds like it’s going to be a money pit. At 20 years old its going to be harder to find parts for it. And there is wear on the frame, it could just fail at some point from fatigue. An Echo doesn’t strike me as a sturdy car.

3

I will be asking/discussing the general condition of the car when I speak to the mechanic on Thursday. I am also concerned about rust and wear in general to the underside of the car.

4

My rule of thumb has always been, “Will the repair cost less than buying an equivalent car without these problems?” If yes, fix the car first then decide whether to sell it or keep it.

5

What are the symptoms that made you take the car to the mechanic?

Can you take pics of the underside, especially of rusty areas that you might be concerned about?

It used to be that cars were good for about 100k miles. These days it’s more like 200k for most cars. But rust will get you. If a 20 year old car has a lot of rust in important places, it doesn’t matter how many or how few miles are on it. Rust is rust.

Shocks and struts are no biggie for a 20 year old car, but if the other suspension issues are caused by major rust issues than I would lean more towards replacing the thing.

6

I’ve been in a similar situation this year, and I did repair even though that probably cost more than the car was worth (I need to wait until next year before I can buy something better).

But as a general rule, as long as body rust isn’t bad a repair isn’t money wasted these days. Although I admit some repairs can be uneconomical if you’re having to pay someone else to do them.

7

Interesting thread, as I’m going through an analogue of the Repair/Replace decision. My truck was rear-ended and damaged enough that insurance companies have been waffling on the “totalled” decision. This has been complicated because the at-fault driver’s liability insurance is insufficient to replace, and maybe even to finish repairs. Also, there were only 3 days of rental car offered by her company. It will take at least 2 months to finish repairs, and likely 4 months to order a similar replacement.

I’ve had to fall back on my old Corolla with 250,000 miles on it. It’s changing some plans for me. For you I’d ask how often you embark on long journeys? I have ongoing responsibilities requiring a monthly 800 mile trip. After using the old car for a week, the pop-up problems make me hesitant to launch on such trips. If you only commute to work (or airport), you might not need total reliability, and the repair option really makes sense. Cars rarely fail so drastically you can’t limp a short distance home (or to the shop).

Considerable money has been spent over he years to keep this old car running, and it’s been worth it to have something suitable for short trips, Walgreen’s, etc. IIRC, the steering/shocks repair a while back was at or near the blue-book value. But $2000 to have a usable, local vehicle for a few years made sense, considering the other option was short hops in a large diesel pickup.

Best of luck. Sometimes car decision seem more like a blackjack game than careful analysis. There’s no way to really know.

8

What are your options for buying? Newer cars are a lot safer than 2003 ones, but if the used cars in your price range are pretty old that might not be a factor.

9

Another factor may be how much longer do you realistically expect to be driving? A 134K miles on a vehicle like a Toyota (despite my earlier comment) isn’t really all that much if there isn’t rust rust damage.

10

If the condition of the car is otherwise pretty good, you think you can get $1800 more use out of before the next breakdown, and you like it, fix it.

On the other hand, it is perfectly ethical to sell an old car with problems as long as you disclose the problems and (if you know) how much it will cost to fix them. People can make their own decisions about whether they want to fix the problems, use it for parts, nurse it along in its current condition (maybe not an option in your case), or just walk away.

11

I had to make a similar decision with my Envoy. I wish I could have kept it but changing the oil pump and fixing the leaks … well at that cost I might as well replace the short block. I made the decision to drive it until failure and got almost 18 months out of it. I’m going to take a loss on the tires I bought for it and stereo but the tires were for safety reasons (snow and ice) and the stereo was because I got too cocky about its survival. Now I have to scrap it which is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

In hindsight I should have done one of the two extremes. Repair it and have a great truck but with 200,000 miles on it so what fails next? Tranny? AC (yes as it turned out)? OR sell it while running with full disclosure of the oil issue. I think the big differences for you are
It’s a Toyota so very reliable car.
Only 134,000 miles so lots of life left in the other parts.

12

At a routine oil change a mechanic said “hey, your rear shocks are a problem you need to get new ones soon”. As my more immediate need was new tires for my truck I parked the car until I got that sorted out, then took the car in for a more thorough examination of the suspension. Whatever symptoms there were either happened slowly enough over time or else this was a sudden failure (I lean towards the former)

Both my vehicles are for short errands, local driving and low speeds, and the commute to/from work (7 miles, again, slow speeds). The ride in the car might have been getting rougher but given the state of some of our roads it would have been hard to know if that was the car or the pavement.

The mechanic already told me over the phone they had taken pictures to show me, so I expect I’ll be seeing that tomorrow.

In my current vehicles? No more. Longest trip I’d be taking in them now would be about 25 miles, and that infrequently. Pre-covid for long trips I’d rent a newer car. Post-covid my longer trips have all been by train. Last long road trip in either of them was over six years ago and that will be the last one.

The other thing is that for a local breakdown I have friends, I know where to call to get a short notice tow (even in the middle of the night), and there’s also Uber and Lyft. That’s a lot different than a breakdown on the interstate in the middle of nowhere with no resources for me locally.

New, functional cars in the age range of my current car are running about $4,000-7,000 right now in this area IF you can find one for sale. Newer cars are more expensive than that again, IF you can find one. We definitely have a shortage of available used cars around here.

The upside is that I do still have a working vehicle at present. I would have to buy in a rush IF I opted to get another car to replace this one.

Me? I expect I’ll be behind the wheel at least another 20+ years. If I follow the pattern of my Dad it could be another 30.

I do expect there is rust damage on the car, the question is how much and what, if any, vital parts have been affected.

That is a good point. There are a couple of people who might want to take it on and fix it themselves.

I think my reluctance is that over the past 10 years or so I’ve had people approach me to ask if the car was for sale because it’s perceived to be in good condition and reliable. Up until now I have always refused because they were individuals who weren’t mechanics/hand with cars and didn’t have the resources to maintain it to keep it reliable. Keep two geriatric vehicles running in a safe and reliable manner does require maintenance and the outlay of some money. This is not the first time I’ve had to consider major repairs.

Thanks everyone for the opinions and thoughts. I’ll probably let ya’ll know what I decide.

13

Look at the condition of the undercarriage of the car. Is it rusted? Does the highway dept put salt on your roads in the Winter? The basic structure and strenth of the car can be effected by rust. Particularly cars driven on salted roads.

My 20 year old car has been driven in a lot of rain and wet weather but still looks very new underneath because they don’t put salt on the roads here. If I repace the shocks, ball joints, etc the car will be returned to basically new condition. If you have rusted lower control arms and other suspension parts they may have been weakened and your money wasted trying to replace the other moving parts because the basic structure has been weakened and will eventually fail.

I believe that you are in the NE part of the US and if your car has been driven on salted roads, junk it,

14

Ignore me

15

I’d repair. It’s a terrible time to buy a car if you can hold off for a while, and Toyotas generally have really long lives. I agree with the comment upthread about rust being rust regardless of the number of miles on the car, but if the frame is in OK condition, you’re in good shape. My family’s Toyotas have lasted around 250k - 300k miles.

16

Assuming there aren’t severe rust issues with the Echo, I’d sell the truck and use the funds to get the car in tip top shape (or at least what can be tip top for a car that old). I get the security of having the second vehicle but it sounds like you’re in a place where wear and tear on the car will be minimal and these days there are things like Uber to get you to work for a short stint if needed. Or, you could sell both vehicles and combine the funds to get a new used car that will hopefully last you longer than either of the ones you have now.

17

If I were looking to buy a used car for cheap, I would look at well-maintained cars that were built between 2008 and 2012.

18

Nope - I realize you can’t see my vehicles and don’t know their history, but honestly at this point the truck, despite being older, is actually likely to last longer, has less mileage on it, and is at this moment in better shape. If anything, I’d ditch the car at this point and use my money to keep the truck running.

And, as I said, the supply of used cars for sale in my area is largely dried up. Sure, if both vehicles were at death’s door I’d have to bite that bullet but I’m not at that point (yet).

I’m off to have a talk with the mechanic this afternoon (assuming all goes according to plan) so maybe I’ll know more about the situation in a bit.

19

To the same people? If not, I’d throw down a few ducats and have a 2nd opinion on the shocks and don’t tell them they recommended replacing the whole suspension. $1800 sounds very expensive unless everything underneath needs to be replaced.

20

Nope, the folks detailing the problems are, in fact, the second opinion.

A bit of back story - for many years I used a particular shop for vehicle repairs and for many years they were very good. And then the quality deteriorated. When they “repaired” a brake line on my truck and the brakes failed the very next day I concluded they were no longer reliable (or safe) to use. The next mechanic I took my car to mentioned the bad shocks. This current guy is my second opinion. I’m guessing my former mechanic shop which used to be good either entirely missed or ignored that the suspension on my car was turning into shit. Which is a damn shame because I can’t help but wonder if I had addressed all this a couple years ago the damage might not be as extensive.

Anyhow, just got back from the 2nd Opinion guys.

According to them frame and structure of the car is sound. It looks OK to me, too (for whatever that is worth). There is, of course, some rust because it’s a 20 year old car but most of it is right at the bottom of the driver’s side door ('cause that’s where I go in and out all the time) and around the wheel wells. So stuff replaced will have a firm and solid thing to attach to. The owner said that prior to actually starting work they could get the car up on the lift and they’d be happy to show me what’s going on underneath and I was welcome to bring alone a mechanically knowledgeable friend as well.

I was given a list of work, parts, and labor.

Rear work is the shock/strut/spring for both sides. As the Echo is not a particularly common car sourcing the required parts that actually fit the car might take a little time (so good thing I’m not under time pressure). I did find information on-line that saying a “near” match intended for another car and trying to make it fit on the Echo can cause significant problems. I have been cautioned by both these new shops that “close enough” isn’t close enough for the Echo and that I really should go with OEM parts in this case, even if sourcing them might require more than going for the first return on a Google search and they’ll probably cost more than rock-bottom (Specifically, the current price estimate for the parts for this is $400 - labor is estimated at only 2/3 that).

Front work is both sides CV axle and both sides control arm. The CV joints are leaking. After a little internet research I now know why they are recommending I not drive the car anywhere.

A number of years ago I had to do a similar repair on my truck, for a similar price. In that case I feel it has absolutely been worth it because of the additional years I’ve been able to drive the truck (it’s going on 7 or 8 years now since then). So the cost of the repair isn’t a shock, and it’s not the obstacle here.

My absolute first priority is that the car be safe to drive.

I also want this to be worth it - meaning, if I can get another 3-5 years out of the car I don’t mind paying for such an extensive repair. The engine, transmission, etc. are all fine and should be able to last that long.

I will ruminate on this a bit, but feel free to continue to offer opinions.