Which country of origin do feel US blacks are most hoping to get back to?
If not back to a country of origin, (and if not, why not?) which country do US blacks feel is the most shining example of how well blacks (as a self-identified group) are doing thanks to the absence of a history similar to the one they’ve had in the US?
Headed for Abuja, are we? Oslo? Beijing? Moscow? Port Louis?
Where is the golden destination from which history robbed US blacks?
It’s a swell plan, but for you personally, what’s the magic kingdom where you will be prospering to an extent you could never dream of here?
We’ve chatted about this before, but if we did that for Medical School, there would be an enormous reduction of black physicians, because as a self-identified group, they are hugely behind in their admission scores for medical school even when they come out of the same pre-med curriculae. The typical application from a self-identified black would not even pass a basic screening for interviewing potential matriculants because of the huge score deficit.
See here (or anywhere else, for example); feel free to look up LSATs if you like. Or check scores for STEM PhD program applicants and so on.
Even when we correct for socioeconomic status, self-identified wealthy blacks (household income over 100,000 dollars/year) underscore self-identified poor whites (household income under 10,000 dollars/year) on the SAT. See here or any other source. So the problem does not seem to be lack of SES-related opportunity.
We have to get blacks to “cough up their race” because if we don’t, higher education would not be appropriately represented by self-identified blacks.
I don’t think it’s a scheme by the racists to have self-identified race/ethnicity, actually. It’s a practical nod to the notion that there is no other way to track fairness of treatment and to give a helping hand up to those groups who need it.
There’s always Alaska. Roughly 150,000 square miles of habitable land, a little more than Japan, for fewer people.
I could see a scenario where the Feds paid black Americans to leave the lower 48 and settle in Alaska. It wouldn’t be voluntary on the part of black Americans, though. It would be, GTFO, or else.
eta
With no right of return to the lower 48. “It’s all yours ladies and gents. Make of it what you will. Don’t call us. We won’t answer.”
Now that I think about it, if you’re proposing emigration to Russia, why go to the trouble? Just go to Alaska instead. The added advantage is that people already in Alaska are a lot less likely than Russians to establish neo Nazi gangs that murder black people on the subway.
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Now, as a practical matter, this hypothetical reparations program would probably be doomed by the millions of white Americans who would suddenly have cause to acknowledge their African ancestry, get a DNA test, and stand in line for a check. There are probably more white Americans who are partially descended from African slaves at this point than black Americans…QUOTE]
One of my ancestors was on the Mayflower. When do I get my reparations from the Church of England for the persecution that it perpetrated against my family?
Some of my ancestors were Kentucky hillbillies. When do I get reparations from all the publishers who put out all those stupid hillbilly-based shows making fun of my people?
I also have an ancestor who traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. Missouri, what about those reparations for the Mormon Extermination Order? Where do I pick up the check? Maybe a complementary admission to a PhD program at the University of Missouri with a tuition waiver might do.
This is why reparations and Affirmative Action are political in nature rather than moral. You can’t have reparations and AA in a fair way because everyone can find some ancestor who got the short end of the straw at some point.
Reparations aren’t an effective way to address the ongoing problems deriving from the past. Partly because reparations are only money, and money is the least difficult problem to solve. There’s a difference between money, on the one hand, and wealth on the other. Wealth is goods and services that people want and need, and the ability to produce these goods and services. Money is the imperfect, contradictory way we keep track of wealth. Handing someone a check for fifty grand may not help them build wealth. It certainly doesn’t help most lottery winners.
Now, most of what you’ve stated here is irrelevant, because it doesn’t involve malfeasance by the Federal, state, and local governments here in the US. The large scale antiblack violence, and denial of basic citizenship rights that occurred throughout the US for a century after the Civil War did involve malfeasance on the part of US governments.
You’re free to bring suit against the UK. You’re silly to even bring up negative portrayals in a few TV shows.
Paying black people to go away would generate a non trivial amount of white support. So one of their votes would cancel out yours.
The money spent wouldn’t necessarily be called “Reparations”. It might be called “Foreign Aid”, “Development Grants” “Resettlement Funds”, or some such thing.
Whatever it cost, it would be cheaper for the US than ethnic civil war.
I thought (incorrectly?) that the OP governed the direction of the debate which he raised:
Originally Posted by **Honesty **:
**" Btw, stop asking blacks to cough up their race and, bam, you don’t have to worry about racial preferences. Get rid of the racial boxes: Problem solved. I think this is a very important point, it’s white people that’s asking, begging, and demanding black people reveal their race. Not the other way around."
*
You quoted me without quoting the context: the OP’s contention implied that race-box checking was some sort of dastardly effort by whites to keep the black man in check.
Is there something in my reply inconsistent with a response to that? My reply was meant to convey that, without race-box checking, we would not be able to get to a society that represents all groups–a concept which I am vigorously in favor of.
I do not recall bringing either IQ or race into the discussion beyond a direct reply to the OP’s own post…
Wait…I thought under your plan you not only have to cough up your race; you have to cough up actual DNA to prove you have enough polymorphisms to get in on the handouts.
Are guys like President Obama eligible, by the way? What if he turns out to be mostly Arab and European polymorphisms, plus his ancestors forgot to be here during the slave period…do only Mrs Obama and the kids get in on the deal?
Do you have to work to stay eligible for payments, or is this sort of a lifetime welfare plan if you have enough of a critical mass of the right polymorphisms?
Since you’re so adamant about reparations, you’ve completely overlooked an area of reparations that never gets addressed.
Our southern ancestors legally owned property that was taken from them without due compensation by the northern government. We deserve due compensation for such outrageous theft, plus interest since 1865.
Sound reasonable to you? It’s just as reasonable as the hogwash you spouted, so why don’t we simply consider it a wash and move on?
Actually, this is way, way less reasonable than what the OP proposes. Not that the OP’s proposal is reasonable or workable, but this is way, way worse.
I’d be willing to bet the Honesty would be OK with a reparation program limited to just the Honesty family for the next 400 years, if push came to shove.
The fine points around workability and fairness on a broader scale are either beyond his ken or beyond his ability to defend, based on the posts I’ve read so far.
But if we (the electorate) do muster enough support to get behind this, I think we should extend reparations to all the other countries we’ve screwed over. Colonializing and the like. And we should also extend this excellent notion to the other nations of the world so that all the strong who’ve preyed on the weak get their comeuppance.
Now that the world has shifted its thinking from the strong oppressing the weak to finding ways for the current population to pay for the sins of their ancestors, there’s really no upper limit to how much largesse should be doled out.
Go, previously oppressed! Get ready for some relaxation!
I think one of the sentiments of the OP – that the power structure of America and American society has failed to provide equal opportunity to black people for most of American history – is absolutely true. Through most of our history, the power structures in America were actively trying to prevent black people from having opportunities towards a decent life, and only in the last few decades have there been any attempts at all to address this.
I disagree with the OP’s proposal for many reasons, chiefly these: there have been real improvements over the last few decades in truly equalizing opportunities. It’s certainly not equal yet, but it’s much closer than it was 50, 100, or 150 years ago. Also, I don’t think it’s likely that there’s any other country on Earth in which black people will have a significantly better opportunity towards a decent and dignified life, so I think the OP’s proposal would result in worse outcomes for black people (as well as others), in both the short run and the long run.
